Spike Camp
Hunting with Weatherby => Elk => Topic started by: Aaron on August 28, 2007, 05:22:38 PM
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What is the best all purpose elk caliber? There's allot that can do the job, but specific to elk what would you choose?
My 1st choice - 300 Weatherby
My 2nd choice - 30-06
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For an Elk specific cartridge it is hard to beat the .340 W.M.
E.W.
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That is true, for nock down power the 340 has it all. I think I might try the 30-378 this year for an elk hunt I have in MT. Allot of outfitters really like that cartridge, not much tracking with good shot placement and even some longer ranges this caliber gets the job done.
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The 340 is the hammer. I really like the 270, 7mm and 300 weatherbys for the nostalgia. I know a few guys that absolutely believe the 257 weatherby is the pinnicle of all elk zappers. With a triple shock or other stout bullet the smaller calibers are big drivers.
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Rogue,
It was a totally informal study, but I asked an outfitter from Colorado who has had years of experience and lots of hunters over the years, what Weatherby calibers he saw most often for his elk hunts. It really surprised me, but he said the .257 Weatherby was the number one (more recently the .30-378). I asked him why he thought that was the case. His response, easy to shoot and easy to hit with, which he thought made his clients more effective, (no flinching). I don't know if you could call it the best all around elk caliber (that should generate lots of debate) but with good bullets and proper shot placement, there's no reason you couldn't take the biggest bull in the woods with it. The .270 Winchester has been doing it for decades, and the .257 Weatherby generates similar numbers comparing 130 grain versus 120 grain Nosler Partition bullets.
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ELK, if we are talking ranges of 300 yards or less?? take a 300 Wby Mag with 180 gr Nolser Accubond. 300 Yards out to 500 Yards 30-378 Wby Mag with 168 gr Barnes TSX. Closer than 200 yards to target?? take a 270 WSM with 150 gr. accutip from Remington. its hard to predict your range in the shot you need to take. The more horsepower behind the bullet, the more distance you can afford to have. Terrain a condition of your shot, dictates the caliber you need to consider in the hunt. smaller the caliber, the more you should get closer to your target. Know your calibers ballistics and know its limitations. lots of open land? potential for a long shot? yes...Then take more horsepower, 30-378 Mag. Forested area not much view past 200 yards?? take less horsepower then I.E. 270 WSM. Want to try and cover both sinerios? take medium Horsepower in the 300 Wby Mag.
Some where in the mix are 7mm mag, 30-06, 338, 340, these just fit in some where when personal preferences prevail. Know your ballistics and go to the field a smart hunter. even if you have to write it down on a card or some thing..know your ballistics. 8)
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Just as important as the proper caliber, The correct bullet. I have not yet failed to have a one shot kill, but luck has helped me out more than once. Problem, bullets breaking up on contact. Thanks to great luck, when this has happened, the shots were in areas with little resistance to reach vital areas. The bullets were great for long range shots, but you never know when your shot is going to be 25 to 100 yards where normal shots would be 200 to 350 yards. I have even had trophy bonded break up at 40 yards.
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For Big Idaho Bulls at long range I use my MarkV in 300 Weatherby. When I draw a cow tag I use my 270 Win. I use my 243 Win. for Mule deer & Antelope. I am interested in purchasing a 240 Weatherby to replace the 243. Anybody have experience with the 240 Weatherby?
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I believe vduck and bruddell hit the nail on the head its not so much the caliber but bullet placement and premium bullets. Today the ammunition and firearms companies have alloted us these comforts. Accurate rifles and quality bullets, that will get the job done no doubt.
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300 Weatherby Mag., add a muzzlebreak for ease of shooting. Mark V Ultralight is so light and easy to pack around and it knocks 'em down everytime.
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300 WSM, multi faceted caliber.
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I think the 338-378 is the best elk caliber ever created. It has plenty of power and is flatter than anything else out there. The price of ammo is a bit high, but in the Accumark with a Krieger barrel I can shoot sub-MOA patterns and have the best terminal performance possible.
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Boy did this topic open up a can of worms! Probably one of the most debated topics among hunters. My neighbors best friend killed over 30 elk all with his .243 Win. Most would call him crazy for even taking that rifle elk hunting. I know several people that use the 25-06, 30-06, 270 Win, 308, and any of the other .30 calibers out there. I believe that the .270 Weatherby Mag is all anyone needs to hunt elk and anything more is overkill. I know having said that I am going to get a ration of opinions telling me otherwise but I will stick to my guns! I see and hear of more wounded elk running off from people shooting the big magnums from .30 cal on up to the .375 H&H. I know it is the shooter and not the caliber. Most people I know are so shy of the recoil from the bigger calibers they don't place their shots well resulting in wounded and wasted animals. I would rather see a person packing a .257 that they can shoot well then a .378 they are scared of.
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The 300 Weatherby Magnum should get the job done in a lot of field conditions. Is it the best for Elk? This is my $.02. ;D
RGJ
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I have no idea what the "best" caliber is, so I just use a rifle I like, the Mark V. I suppose elk have been taken with every caliber available in the Mark V, but I do have a strong preference for the Weatherby magnums. My guide last year uses the 257, 300 and 338-378 for his hunting which seems to make a nice battery for antelope, mule deer and elk. I own the above three calibers but can't remember that last time I fired them?
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300WBY is my choice for elk
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Depending on the distance, either 300 Wby. or 30-378 Wby. Both are wonderful and have had both.
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DEPENDING ON THE SHOT IF OVER 300 YARDS I WOULD USE THE WBY 30-378. HIGH VELOCITY AND HARD HITTING. A SHOULDER SHOT WILL DROP HIM WHERE HE STANDS
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I'd say:the biggest,fastest;hardest hitting firearm that you can handle( WEIGHT WISE&RECOIL WISE).....i e 300 Weatherby...if I can't getter dun with my300Weatherby I call in an air strike....Big Ray
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i use a 7mm rem mag works and does a good job 1 and done.
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My choice is .300 Wby. I use 165gr sierras in my handloads for moose here in Newfoundland. Real fast & flat!! My buddy oses Sierra 200gr BT spitzers. Still flatter than 30-06 with a 180 gr. Second choice is 340 Wby or 338 Win Mag with 200 to 250 gr premium bullets. I've used both 300 Wby and 338 for moose here, with spectacular results.
SJ
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I know its already been said, but I feel the .340 Weatherby Mag is the best all round Elk caliber.
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I know there are several really great calibers for elk, but my vote is the 300 weatherby mag with the 180 grain nosler partition bullet.
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If I had only 1 caliber to take out of all the calibers from 243 all the way up to 378 Mag...
I would most definitely take a 300 Wby Mag. Most versitile caliber out there. I would attempt a shot at 400 yards with a 168 Barnes TSX. (?) all of you are puzzled by the 168 gr. bullet??? Its a hand load with 83 grains of reloader #22 powder. It will go blazzin down range in a hurry. and give you almost 2,350 Lbs of energy at 500 yards. Not a bad hand load Aaaaa? I also have say the 270 WSM is my other favorite child as well. But I'll save that for another message stream. Good hunting - Know your ballistics!! 8)
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These non-controversial topics are the best! ;D
I don't think there is a "best" caliber for elk or for anything else for that matter. There are plenty that work really well though. If I were to be able to go again I miiight use the trip as an excuse to pick up a Fibermark .340 I've been wanting. But if that excuse didn't fly with the other half I'd take either my .30-06 or .300 WM most likely.
The one opportunity I've had to hunt them so far I took my .35 Whelen...no luck though.
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1st choice: 45-70 Govt loaded with 300 grain Partitions.
2nd choice: 300 Weatherby with 180 grain Partitions.
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;D I have used the 30-06 with great success but want a 300 to make sure I anchor the animal if I have a bad angle. Jess
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I have shot more Elk with the .300 WM than anything else but I do like the .340 WM for that extra added security of bringing one of those critters down. In Weatherby calibers I have heard of everything from the .257 to the .460 with many using the .30-378. The best caliber is the one that the shooter can produce the best shot with. Shot placement is the key.
E.W.
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i use my .300 and barnes 200 grains TSX
and my .378 for moose
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Anything with a TSX! Lasst year I took a huge bull elk, 1 mulie buck and a pair of lopes in a period of 8 days with my 300 Wby and 180 TSX. By the way, the Barnes TSX opens on any game.
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Headed out Elk huting this fall and plan to use the ole reliable Weatherby 30-378 Mag. The bone crusher will be back in action again soon. Most people think I use to big of a gun, but then I do not spend much time tracking any game.
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I like my 300 Weatherby but also use my Weatherby 338 Win mag for when I hunt alone
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I would definitely say the .340 Weatherby loaded with 250 grain Partitions. But, as it turns out, I've actually carried the .300 Weatherby loaded with 180 grain Barnes more often, simply because I've owned it longer.
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I diffinetly recomand the .340 weatherby specialy if yu reload yur amunition
with a 200 grain Hornady with .88 grains of IMR 7828 it will push yur ogive at 3,240 fps
give yu a good accurate shot group of 3 shoot at a 100 yards less than 1/2 and inch 8)
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First, I must confess that I have newer shot an Elk in my life. But, I have hunted a lot in Africa with my 340 Weatherby Magnum. I have also witnessed much game taken with different calibers and my opinion is based on this.The 340 is hard hitting and extremely powerful on plains game. Penetration is outstanding with premium bullets, and it shoots flat. Load it with any 250grs premium bullet sizzling out @3000fps and you have all you need. It's deadly stuff!
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Hi there,
I've killed elk with everything from a 30-30 through to my current 340 Weatherby. The best advice I can offer when selecting a caliber for this animal is to know your shooting range as these critters can really pack lead. Although you really can't beat a 30.06, as long as you use at least a 180 grain soft point, I would use the largest caliber you have in stock; this is really an animal that bigger is better.
Good luck and good hunting.
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I have always used the principles, know your weapon, memorize your ballistics, know your what is down range beyond your target, memorize the anotomy of the Elk, and breathe & squeeze.
Bigger is better when hunting. One might night get the ultimate shot you had practiced for or wished for but with a large caliber your chance of success has increased when you need to take a hard shot.
Fully agree to use the largest caliber you have and are comfortable using this caliber. I have a 460 Weatherby but that just might be tooo much. My 30-378 is my weapon of choice for hunting this animal.
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E.W. is right the .340 Weatherby Mag is deadly on big bulls. I know the outfitters I hunted with in Colorado were impressed with its performance. I have also had great luck with the .300 Weatherby Mag. I took a 360 SCI class bull two years ago with my .300, a 396 yard shot off the top of a bluff. The 180 grain found its mark and dropped the bull dead in his tracks. You should have seen the look on the guide face.
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.340 WBY, it won't let you down. Try a 210 partition, I have had xlent results even on deer. This one will reach out and touch if required. Fall is now here, let the games begin!!
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I agree with E W. The .340 Weatherby I believe is the best for Elk. I have hunted elk all my life and shot elk with a lot of different calibers. The 340 just simply let the air out of them and as you get older, you don't have to look for your animal. Its laying right where you shot.
Steve
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I like the 30-378 Weatherby mag. Lots of knock down power at a long distance
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340 w.m. with the 210 partition. it might wiggle but it aint going anywhere.
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The .340 Weathereby with a one of the better 225 grain bullets, such as the Nosler Partition or Accubond.
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From what I have seen a .30-06 do to Elk, I can't wait to try my .340.
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This is kind of like voting for the best car or best food. Any 338 caliber is excellent. The big 30's are next. Everyone knows a lot of elk have been taken with much smaller calibers and some with much larger. There are certainly some cartridges that are just plain unsuitable. That is where the arguments start. Correct shot placement is the most important factor. This is always an interesting topic however.
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My 300 wby was my Elk rifle - but I have found that I like my 9.3x62 better. It hits like a hammer and since moves a little slower (velocity about 2600) there is less meat damage. For those that are not familiar with the 9.3x62, it is a .366 caliber, the cartridge is about the same length as a 30-06. I think it is a perfect Elk caliber out to 250 yards (for me) some may go out father but I'm not that good.
Lance
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.340 Weatherby Mag....I have taken 2 Alaskan Moose, 4 Caribou, and 6 Elk in Colorado....the last one was ranged @ 645 yds & the Elk dropped in his tracks. I own many different Rifles in many different Calibers....but the .340 Weatherby Mag is by far...the best & MOST accurate rifle I own.
Chuck
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test
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For my money it is hard to beat the .300 Wby Mag. I use it here in Colorado with either 165 or 180 grain rounds and have yet to have an animal run more than 20 yards after being hit.
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elk cartride....340....should be what the doctor ordered...Ray264
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For Elk... My Vanguard in 7mm with tough 165gr rounds, would'nt think twice about it to 300 - 350 yds. but you have to know how to use it... I also shoot a 300 WSM she's a good thumper for even the biggest of Elk. Use you're hunting skills to get closer if you're not confident with long shots ! ! ! Bigger is better, but these will do just fine. Dave
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My choice is the .270 Win.  That's a caliber, not a rifle.
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1. 338-378Wby
2. 30-378Wby
3. 300Wby.
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re: Best all around for Elk? Depends upon where you're hunting. If you're in bear country I'd skip over the .30's and .33's and go for the 300 grain .37's, i.e. .375 H&H or Wby, etc. Otherwise .33's are the most versatile cartridges.
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I've killed quite a few Elk whith what some say isn't an adequate caliber. I shoot a .264 Win. Mag and have never shot an elk more than one time through the vitals that didn't go down quickly. I have over the years considered moving up to a .300 Win mag, but sure is hard to quit on the girl that brung you to the dance.
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All my bull's I have killed with a bow. After reading this post I think my .325 WSM, I just bought, will do the job just fine. All the cow elk have dropped with a 30-06.
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300 Weatherby Magnum! I knocked down my 6x6 from 410 yards with one shot. Have not tried the 30-378 but it is getting a lot of attention these days.
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Swraith - what bullet and load did you use for that shot? Just curious.
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In reply to 300WeatherbyBoise:
I have had a 240 Weatherby since 1975. It has been a very good rifle and cartridge. Mostly I have used it for rockchucks, but it has also been used for deer and pronghorns. I rebarreled it with a Shilen barrel many years ago, which improved its accuracy considerably, and it has been shot so much that now it needs another barrel. The Shilen probably has over 1500 rounds through it, although that is just a guess.
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I havent even read through the whole thing but would like to interject 325WSM and since weatherby dont make it i would say a Kimber 8400 classic I will PROMISE you if you hit a elk with that hes dead before he fled.-Doug ;D
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Hi Avalauncer,
I used a 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip from Weatherby.
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my 340 weatherby with a 225g barns triple shock killed 2 quick fast and in a hurry but in montana you always sea a monster muledeer or a big whitetail when you are out elk hunting. so i like the 270 weatherby mag it wont destroy a deer and it will kill an elk just fine at 500+yards :)
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I bought the 338-378 Accumark specifically for elk out West... The 340 was one of my original choices but I opted for the 378 based cartridge... I use my '06 as my backup rifle so yes, the 338-378 is a "bit" more then I need but who cares, it's a riot to shoot ;D...
Ken....
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30-378 ACCUMARK THE BEST EVER
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I would have to go with anything in a .300 or .338 and since this is a weatherby site...
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I'm really interested in the new 338 Federal cartridge. May have to pick up a rifle chambered for that sometime as a dedicated elk/bear rifle.
I've always had a thing for lever actions, and for big bores, the .444 Marlin.
Between those two, I'd probably get the 338 Fed, but then whine about how much I liked the .444!
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I,ve shot 30 06 for yrs until my son was old enough to take it over. And i've had good results with it. I purchased my 300 last yr but with point rules and restrictions I have yet to put one in the crosshairs. But I will eventually ?
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Love my Vanguard 30-06 enough distance & smack- down to do the job! Looking forward to using the Hornaday Light Magnum rounds in 165 gr. IB. 8) :o
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Yahe I got a 444marlin too i use it for wild hogs down here in florida and deer in SC but i just dont think i would use it for elk its plenty but i got mine in a Winchester 94AE carbine 18.5" bbl and to me thats a brush gun.I'm fond of the 325WSM. Mr.Weatherby do you think you could put that in the Vanguard arter all you have the 270WSM which is ok but not as good as the Weatherby 270mag.-Doug
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Best is a relative concept here as there are many that will do the job. I can speak for what my likes were when I bought rifles for elk hunting... My first rifle was a 30-06 which will certainly do the job. When it came time to buy a rifle specifically for elk and larger animals my thinking went to 338 caliber... An Accumark in 338-378 just happened to cross my path so I found a home for it ;D... I simply love the power of this cartridge and it will certainly take care of any hunting needs I might have in the future... Of course I do have my eye on a 460 but that won't be for elk ;)... Not to say if I'm lucky enough to buy one that I wouldn't use it for elk but the 460 is more of a nostalgia thing for me...
Ken....
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I would have to say 7mm rem mag is a pretty good one. I don't know that I would give it the title of "best" since that is a relative term, but it is the caliber that I like for elk.
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I do not know if this is the best all around elk caliber but my 378 just smashed an elk at approx. 400 + yards with a 260 gr accubond and it tried to run for approx 20-30 yrds and dropped dead. Perfect heart shot and lost 1 front shoulder because it was walking and the leg was back to far when the bullet hit. Clean through and flat, most impressive result. I LIKE IT. ;D... It was -25 degrees celsius, wow was that cold, Don't recommend that to anyone, but what a rush. ;)
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I don't know about "best", having taken only one, but I took mine with my .416 WBY Mag at 285 paces with a 400gr Swift A-frame. He was quartering towards me and the bullet entered near the front of the left shoulder, broke the shoulder, vaporized his heart and lungs, punched through the length of the bull to end up just under the skin of the right rear quarter as a perfect mushroom. Can't say I could have wanted better performance and my 6 X 6 340 B&C Elk is testament to that. I did bring my 30-378 Accumark as a back-up rifle but it never saw action.
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This topic can entertain hunters, especilly around a campfire, for hours and has ended some friendships over the disagreements. The main thing that must be remembered is the animal we hunt should be taken as humanely as possible. That being said, the caliber used should always be adequate for the size of the animal. Also something that needs to be considered is elk usually inhabit territory that may contain large bears. So I want to go on the record that the 340 WM would be my choice. It also happens to be my favorite caliber Weatherby. It will do the job, and provides the added power necessary to stop any of the bigger bears should one show up.
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I would have to agree with Mr. EW on saying the 340wby would be the best elk round. It shoots plenty fast enough and hits very hard. I have had great results with my accumark 340 in accuracy and field performance, it has pretty much dropped everything in its tracks from deer, pig, aoudad, and elk. My pet load is 250gr Swift A Frames behind RL22 at 2850fps with almost 5000 ftlbs at the muzzle and it has grouped wonderfully and the bullets perform flawlessly in this caliber. I wouldn't hesitate to use the 340wby on anything in North America and at any range one can accurately and consistently shoot at.
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I have only shot one elk in my life, it was with my .300 wby vanguard and it did the job just fine. I would one day like to get a .378 wby mag, that would be my ideal elk caliber 270 grains at over 3000 fps would be a hammer that still produces excellent trajectory.
NB
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The perfect one is..... The one you are comfortable, familiar and know. If you are scared of your gun (kick) it is too big. Can't kill them if you can't hit them.
If you don't use it enough to use the gun in an unconcious type of way, quick follow up shots, jams etc... It isn't the right gun for you. Last but not least you need to know your guns trajectory. If those 3 things are good, then you have found the perfect gun. ;)
Best of luck
Mntman
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Since you're looking for a straight answer, I won't place any qualifiers on my choices.
#1 - .340 Weatherby
#2 - .300 Weatherby
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Truth of the matter is any caliber will do the job if the trigger man is up to the task! The trick is to hit what you are aiming at and knowing where to aim.
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Lots of ink has been spilled on this topic but here's what I believe.
The caliber should be at least 7mm (.308 is better). The bullet weight should be at least 160gr and the velocity should be at least 2700 fps. Lower limit for a rifle purchased exclusively for elk hunting should be 7mm Rem Mag but a .300 Win mag and up would be better.
All around rifles that could be carried on an elk hunt might include .270 Win with 150gr bullet and .30-06 with 165 or heavier bullet. I've taken elk with .270 Win, 7mm Rem mag, and .300 Win mag but feel a lot better about carrying the .300 for a long shot on a big bull.
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My 12 year old boy started hunting this year, with a .243 vanguard. Passed down, I shot my first elk with it, 5x5.Son took a black bear,5x5 whitey, and 5x7 bull, all at 250 yards.Shot placement.But for elk the more gun you can handle the better if you are going too stretch the range.I've taken 6 bulls at 500-650,lasered,mil dot tatical,adjusted.With the 340 WM 225 gr.hard to beat for energy vs. recoil. Been Knocking elk over with it for 20 years, 7mm mag before that 30+ elk in the salt.
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I find myself looking at guided hunt web sites quite often. Wishful dreaming,I guess :). It seems to me that most recomend .270 or larger rifles. I`m sure they might consider .257 Weatherby, but I would sure ask before I went .My elk rifle in the past was .300 win mag.
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Without a doubt, the 300 Weatherby Mag takes the prize. Second on my list is the 300WSM with the 300Win Mag taking a close third. The 30-06 gets a honorable mention. I don't have any real hunting experience with the 300RUM which is suppose to be a great round so it didn't make the cut on my list.
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phew, this thread took a lot of reading, below is the best bit of advice I found within all of it....
The best caliber is the one that the shooter can produce the best shot with. Shot placement is the key.
E.W
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There is not a best all around caliber. Best would apply to a given set of circumstances for the hunt. Perhaps this thread should be renamed Preferred Elk Caliber???
For me, I would take a specific caliber depending on the situation.
1. If there are grizzlies or browns around...I'll take a small cannon with me in the .338 caliber (.340/.338-378 Weatherby).
2. No bad bears around say in Colorado, I'll take the .300 Weatherby.
However, for something fun I would luv to try an elk hunt with my .257 Weatherby.
CK
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300 WSM is all you need for ELK. the 340 wby works good for buffalo and some large bear.but for ELK it is way over kill. in less you need to try to kill the ELK 400 to 500 yards away.
1.300 wsm
2.270 wby mag
3.270 wsm
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Overkill is in the eye of the beholder! Use a rifle you can shoot accuratly. It doesn't make you more or less of a man if you can't shoot a .340. I know people that use .375 H&H on elk, I also know guys that use .264 mags and there are numerous people on this site that use a .257 wby. For me it goes like this.
1. 300 wby
2. 340 wby
3. 338 win
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Ok I am sorry maybe i should have said,to me it is over kill Why i say this is I have a 340 wby in a Mark V Deluxe I got two years ago and when i went hunting with it for ELK, I know this was because of the bullet i was using but I lost a lot of the meat when i used this gun. I cant remember what bullet it was because i Handload and back then i picked up a lot of different bullets from Midway USA.
Ok I take back what I said yes the 340 wby is very good but i do thank the 300 wby would be a better choice.And I do thank the 257 wby is a great ELK caliber.
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Over the past 25 years, I have personally shot & have witnessed others shoot elk at distances of 25 to 335 yards; with cartridges ranging from 30-30s to 340 Wby Mags. The most popular in my experience has been the .270. Far more important than the cartridge, is the bullet & the shot placement. I always tell friends about to go after elk for the first time, to bring the biggest gun that they shoot well, & to use a well constructed bullet. In a high velocity caliber, that means a premium bullet. In a big & slow number, a standard cup & core will usually suffice.
I'm a bit of a rifle looney, so I normally go to camp with 4 rifles, if conditions allow. I always bring my Mark V in 7mm Wby. Mag. I use both 160gr. Partitions & 160 gr TBBCs in this gun. Secondly, I pack my Browning BLR in .358 Win. My load will be either a .250 gr Speer HotCor or .250 gr Speer Grand Slam. I have never recovered a .358 bullet. Penetration is always complete.
The two optional guns will usually be a Ruger .270 with 140 gr Failsafes, & a Remington 30-06 pump with 180 gr Partitions.
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Jimincolo you are 100% right Shot placement is what is important.
The cartridge i like for elk is 300 wsm or 325 wsm.
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I took my elk on Mt. Wheeler last year at 550 yards with my .338-.378 Weatherby using a 225 g Accubond with 111 g of H1000. That is twenty-two clicks up from my 300 yard zero on my Leupold 8 - 25 X 50 scope, equipped with M1 turrets. That bullet struck the elk at 550 yards going 2343 fps with 2742 ft lbs of energy. I'll take the .338 WBY for elk any day.
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I've been shooting a 338-378 for years and have taken wolf, caribou, moose, black and brown bear with it. It has great long range capabilities and will knock down anything you can hit.
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There is no doubt that the 338-378 is an awesome weapon. I am going to get one, throw the stupid synthetic stock away and have it properly stocked with an embedded wooden stock. Throw on a shoulder pad for recoil (my age is showing) and a decent scope and I will be ready to rumble. While folks can argue all day about what is the optimal caliber to use I do know that I will be able to handle any animal in this hemisphere and probably the world and the rifle will actually look like a rifle. I am well aware of the need for a second stud etc but not a big issue. I can in fact handle it. The world record kill in distance is 1.78 miles and I am sure the 338-378 can handle the distance. Just my cents worth.
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Probably i would use a 308 for flat shooting and being extremely powerful. :)
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My first choice would be the .300 Win Mag, followed by the .30-06, although there are many other great choices. As was said earlier, shot placement is the key. A shot in the vitals with a .270 Win is better then a poorly placed shot with a .338 Win Mag. If someone is looking into getting a heavy caliber and has never shot one, it is critical that person get to the range get get well-versed with their weapon. You don't want to flinch when the opportunity arises for a shot at a throphy bull.
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Killed my bull in Montana a few years ago with a .308 Win and 1 Hornady 165 BTSP Light Mag at over 300 yards. But next time I'm bringing my Mark V SBGM .338-06.
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Teds1407 you need to check your math.I've shot a 340 WM FOR 20 years in the mountains elk hunting. A 550 yard shot would only take 6.4 clicks with my set up, refering to minutes. 22 MOA would put you at 950 yards.
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its a tie between the 300 roy and 300wsm. both are good guns able of most 500 yard shots
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If you speak from a pure ballistics perspective the 300 WM beats the 300WSM hands down. It can push the heavier bullets, like the 200 TSX, 250+ fps faster. That gives it a decisive edge as far as power and trajectory. If you want to factor in portability or handiness then you might have a stronger arguement. For my money i'll take the 300 Weatherby Magnum over the 300 WSM
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.375 H&H 270gr Barnes TSX! Frank
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There is no best caliber for elk. If you had to pick one it would be the rifle you shoot well just as long as it has enough energy to make a humane kill at your hunting distance. Enough said.
Eaglesnester
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The best caliber is the one you use that kills your elk and fills your tag!! For years the military has used the .308 for all of its sniper shooting....it's a great caliber and can be loaded in many different ranges of grain size. I have hunted with 7mm, .30-06, and now a .300WSM. All are capable of killing an elk here in Colorado! Great topic to reach a nerve for some people...
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Here is the real question. Are you hunting in BEAR territory? If so take something that if you miss the bear you can crawl in the barrel. I like the .340, a little tight to crawl into but I don't plan on missing and the .340 will handle all situations. 8)
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I do hunt in bear territory ::). I hope not to have to shoot one!
I was a .30-06 fan for many years. I bought a 7mm. Rem. Mag. for a flatter shooting cartridge for this season.I figured it would be good all around for Muleys, Whitetails, Pronghorn, and Cow Elk. 150 gr. Nosler Partitions or Win. Supreme Ballisitc Silvertips should serve me well for all above. I'm eager to give it a try at a long distance on Yotes,Jackrabbits and PDogs with 140 gr. Nosler Partitions.
Chris
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I hunt elk here in Idaho with a 7mm Weatherby Mark V Deluxe, and it has never disappointed me. One shot at a five point bull at 314 lasered yards: One bull on the ground; one shot at a spike at a lasered 525 yards: One bull on the ground.
The 7mm Weatherby may be considered "light for elk" by many forum members, but with a 160 Nosler Partition, it really does the job. Flat shooting, hard-hitting, accurate enough, and almost ideal terminal ballistics.
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I don't konw about you guys, but Elk tastes better when shot with at 300 Wby Mag. ;)
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I live out west where a shot might be 25 yards or 300 yards, I don't know about the
"Best" caliber for Elk, But, everyone at the range drools at my Browning "Belguim Made"
.338 Win. Mag., and the groups are unbeleivable. I shoot Federal Factory ammo in a
225 Grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. I am retiring this old rifle while It's still In
Excellant Condition, And going with a Weatherby 30-378, Flat shooting and hard
hitting, should work good. I will still take my old gun to the range, It's a HOOT
to SHOOT!!
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I personally have killed only one elk with the 338. It is outstanding with the 225 gr bullet. During the late 1980s and early 90s I saw several elk shot with the 338 and if one can handle the kick, it is deadly elk medicine.
I personally have used a 300 WBY, shooting 180 and 200 grain bullets. I hesitate to say how many elk have been taken, but I remember only one getting away from me. I have also taken several elk with my 270 but much prefer the 300. Your new 30-378 should be excellent for elk. pete4c
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There are so many that get that job done. If I could only pick one though...
.340 Weatherby Mag
Hot Load with a sectional density around .280
A Nosler Partition would probably be my choice of bullet
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.300 WBY mag certainly best for elk. Particularly if going up and out, or into Canada. In northern B.C., this is what the outfitters and guides recommend. Use 180gr tough bullets/ I like the cor-bon DPT, using the solid copper Barnes hp bullet at 3200. Sight in at 200 yds, (about 1 1/3 hi at 100). With a Burris balplex, or smilar LR reticle, it is right on again at 500yds. Some shots at very good bulls will be 250-300 yds. If you practice and adjust for wind, drop, the .300 can drop an elk out to 500yds.
I can shoot a .375, but practicing with it is too hard. The .300 will also be good for moose and caribou. If you want less penetration, pick the sierra sp or nosler sp, but stick with the 180gr. My experience with the plastic-tipped bulllets is that they get beat up in the nagazine of when rapidly loaded from the magazine. I like best when the jacket of the bullet comes up to the tip.
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While I have never had the oportunity to Elk hunt but have read much about it, I would choose a .300 Weatherby as my first choice and then a 7mm Weatherby. Either one should more than enough, especially with a Barnes TSX.
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I am originally from the mnts of NC, and lived over here in the UK for about 15 years, and the stalkers and guides over here use, .308, next is 30.06 and there are still a few of the old timers that still use .270. Thats in Scotland and Ireland, and Ireland is the place that has the really big Reds, quarter of a ton boys. And they use .308.
One of the up and coming rounds, which is on my check list is the 25.06, just because it shoots so flat, which is great for those shots on the Fallow!
Thanks for the space and time!
Bryan Nelson
Sportingagent.com United Kingdom
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I would suggest the 340 weatherby as ideal. This is the 300 weatherby cartridge necked to 338. Why this over the 300? Very accurate out to about 500 yards (friend of mine killed an elk at 470 yards with a 340). To me it just makes sense to have a good BC and bullet choices. If you want to get fancy you can get a 338-378 but remember what Newton said "For each action there is an equal and opposite reaction (the rifle kicks quite a bit)" The advantage of this caliber woud be shooting at a 1000 yards or so which is a pretty absurd distance but possible.
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Well, like most say - it's the shot not the caliber. I take the bulls with a 300wsm(180 accubonds), my partners use 300 RUM(200 accubonds). Used to be the 30-06 with no problems. I want to move up to a bigger caliber to throw more lead(250 grn) and still get that 2000 lbs out a 500 yards. My heart says move to the 338-378 so there are no questions but maybe one step at a time. 340 weatherby! Still looking for motivation.
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After spending some range time with my .338RUM MarkV,developing a couple good loads,I would take that rifle elk hunting. It sure wallops hogs,1 close to 300lbs. :)
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375 ruger.
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Sell Sell Sell, There is no need for a new cartridge to have accurate Elk caliber. I heard it from the Horse's mounth "if you only have one Weatherby make it a .300, You can take anything in the world with it!" I believed Ed then and it is the same now. My personal is a 30-378 however. I have more than one Weatherby. My favorite is a .257 which has been responsible for two elk this year so far. Both of them went through side to side and out. Using factory loads with the Partition.
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270 Weatherby Mag 150 Nosler partition. Droped it like a sack of potatoes 450 yards.
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I made a high shoulder shot on a large bull last week and dumped him immediately. 160 yards with a 180 grain NP from the 300WBY magnum. What a great round!
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I don't know what the "best" caliber is, but I was successful with the new Vanguard 257 at 90 yds. He stopped dead in his tracks and laid down. 100gr sp with 70 grn RL22.
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I have shot cow elk with 12 gauge slug and 30-30, and seen deer run off 100 plus yards after shot with a 270, and 30-06. this year I got a 300 wby mag and shot a running monster bull elk and dropped him with a lucky heart shot, for elk it is often hard to get close, so with that said you need something that not only can shoot far, but deliver the knockdown power to that distance. With a 300 weatherby mag, You can sight in 2.5 inches high at 100 yards, zeroed at 200, and hit 3 in low at 300 . so you basically don't have to compensate for any height in between 0-300 yards. And it will easily deliver the killing power on elk out 800 yards provided that you can shoot that. with a 150 grain bullet you can get 3,450+ fps on average with factory loads, which is smoking fast and out to 400 yards its still going about 2900 fps, which is about the muzzle velocity of a 270 win or 30-06. and most people are worried about the recoil, which I have to say is not bad at all , especially when you have a bull elk in your sights. I would not settle for nothing less than a 300 wsm,winmag,wby ,rem ultra mag. All around the 300 is a perfect elk cartridge. and the 300 wby is the giving the same fps as the 300 rum. most people say the 300 rum is bigger but if you look up the facts you will find that the 300 wby is a spitting image of the 300 rum when it comes to fps, bullet sizes, range, price for ammunition, and recoil.
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While I have only killed one Elk. While preparing for the hunt, I researched everything currently available and reviewed the guns I owned. I have a 300 Win in a BAR, a 30-06 Remington, 270 Win in 7400 Remington, a 270 WSM in a Model 70 a gun I truly love as well as 308 Marlin Express. As my hunt drew closer I decided to purchase a 340 Weatherby in an accumark with an accubrake. I kept hearing a voice that said you use the largest gun you can shoot well. My 340 shoots less than inch groups at 100 yards with 250 NP's and had as much knock down at 500 yds as the 30-06 does at 100 yds. My bull was 85 yards on a river bottom not many yards from thick timber with only 30 minutes of shooting light left in grizzly country. I decided to try to anchor him with a shoulder shot so we would not have to come back the next day and look for him in the thick timber. The 340 went through both shoulders he only managed to run 25 yards after the shot. I am a big fan of my 340 right now. If you like you can remove the brake and hunt with it like that while practicing with the accubrake on it.
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hey, i have smacked various animals with the .338-378 wby and find it to be very varsatile and awesome. there is only one dead and this caliber puts the smack down right now! have taken moose to antelope with a 160 gr. barnes x-bullet and all have been terminal on the spot.
but good luck with your search.
art
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I've shot all but one elk with the .270 Win. in the Vanguard. All were one-shot kills. My dad does all the reloading for me....mostly the 130gr. Last year I used the 300H&H and shot a nice spike. The 300H&H is a blast to shoot!!!
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If some one wanted to ruffle some feathers this was the question. Then ask them how many elk they have killed, My Family, friends and I have killed many elk over the years. My wife took a nice bull at 370 yds with a 270 win here in Arizona. I culdn't figure out what she was shooting until I seen the bull way out in the meadow. Shes a really good shot. She used it in Africa last year same results, I really get a kick out of these so called super mags, I have them too, but to be honest it isn't the caliber it's the bullet that does all the terminal work and the shooter behind the rifle, my son took his first elk when he was 12 years old with a 300 savage. Youngest daughter uses a 30-06, My all time favorite elk killer is a 270 win, never had one get away, my second choice is a 300 WBY for those longer shots, my problem most elk I have shot have been under 100 yds with the exception of a 270 yd shot with a 270, which I ranged out after I dumped it, I even have a 458 win mag loaded with 350 gr hornady just to see what it would do, just haven't had the chance to use it yet. There isn't a mythical best elk caliber, just good shooters.
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This topic has been around for many years and I know it will be so for many to come. I have lived and hunted in Montana since 1960. Even though I have experience, it dosn't make me an expert. Out of seven rifles I use for big game the 338 cal. is as small as I have even though when I first started hunting I used a 30-06. I have used each progressive cal. up to and including the 460 WBY. That is the 338 cal., 375 cal., 416 cal., and the 458 cal.. Even though one can kill an elk with a 22 cal. I firmly believe a person can be under gunned but never over gunned. If I am hunting where I could expect a long shot I like my 340 WBY although a 338-378 or 378 WBY would do very well also. In heavy timber the 375 cal., 416 cal. or the 458 cal. work well and yes I have used all these including my 460 WBY for this. If mixed country the 340 WBY is very good. As some have guessed I like the big bore. There is good reason for this, I want the elk down and not half to track no matter what the shot angle. I always use the heaviest and best constructed bullet in each caliber for maximum penetration at any angle. However some do not like heavy calibers and that is fine, I believe one should just use the biggest cal. you can handel well be it 270, 7mm, or 300 and up and use the heavyest bullet in each. The best all around for elk the 340 WBY gets my vote.
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I like DarkTimber's answer....First you have to be able to shoot a particular rifle accurately....then comes the caliber. The .340 Weatherby is my choice for an elk rifle....loaded with 210 Nosler partitions. I have taken many elk with this rifle over the past 30 years and 99% were one shot kills. My .340 has a 26" #2 contour barrel which makes its recoil tolerable without a muzzle break. The .300 Weatherby is my second choice as I have taken many elk with it before I got my .340. If I had to own only one rifle, it would be the .300. In areas where I am hunting both mule deer and elk I often carry my .270 Weatherby loaded with 150 grain Nosler partitions. It works fine on elk as well as deer. I have also taken elk with my .338/378 as well as my .30/378 and they are awesome....but in order to manage their recoil you need the muzzle break. The long barrels with the muzzle breake make them less scabbard and timber friendly. I too, have owned and shot all of the Weatherby calibers and have an appreciation for each. The bigger calibers have their place, but I would stay with the caliber that you can shoot accurately and with recoil that YOU can manage. If you don't like recoil, the .270 or 7mm Weatherby are good choices. Good luck and shoot straight!
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I also like darktimber's vote and will add mine to Dr. Bettas' coments about the .340 Wby. I bought mine in 1984 and have hunted elk in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming as well as moose and caribou in Alaska almost exclusively with it since. It's flat trajectory, trememdous down range energy and tolerable recoil makes it accurate and effective at any reasonable range. I have gravitated to 210 Barnes TSX and Reloader 22 powder handloads for best accuracy of any load I have tested so far.
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The .338 is the utimate elk caliber. The only question is what case you wish to put behind it.
Less than 200 yards: 338-06
To 300 yards: 338 Win Mag
Up to 400 yards: 340 Wby Mag
If you can't get within 400 yards for a shot, you're not a hunter.
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I've only hunted elk once I hunt whitetails by tracking My shots are measured in feet with 2 #'s or less I also hunt down south on occasion This is a long shot game of 300+ For that I use a 270 win vanguard This rifle is as accurate as a trued up Model 70 target gun I use One thing I have learned over the years is this Bullet speed at the muzzle is only great if it is sustainable If your going to hunt Elk You want a long for caliber bullet For me that makes the 200gr bullet in the 300 wby the end of the conversation My 300 shoots 8" groups on the 1000yd line When I did go on the only elk hunt in my life Laser range finders and wind doping devices were not available to the public I used a duplex reticle that I had learned(by reading the directions in the scope box)to accurately range my targets This was brought out in range time
The point I'm trying to convey is this You can use any caliber you wish Put the range time in with proper instruction and you will have the confidence of knowledge With that new found knowledge you can apply it with the ethical results Currently there are some shows on various outdoor channels that show extremely long shots on animals The are being ethical as the animals are collapsing in there tracks at these ranges Being a competent shooter for this is outstanding To me and only me I would prefer to get in closer as I feel that the challenge is getting to within 50' or less That is my standard I try to live by you can make your own and you should It's not a competition with anyone else just yourself
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I would imagine the best all around Elk Cartridge would be the 340 weatherby provided of course that the shooter is competent and can place s bullets in a vital area. Any bullet coming out of a 340 weatherby is an Elk bullet so no worries there in that department. Most shooters will probably be better served with a 270 or 7mm Weatherby.
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I have shot elk with a 270 Win, 7mm Rem Mag, 30-06, 300 Win Mag and my favorite elk Cartridge - 340 Weatherby.
I am currently on my second 340 - an Accumark with an accubrake, scoped with a Kahles 3 - 12 x 56. Two years ago I brought down an elk at just under 500 yards with one shot and it dropped in its tracks. I love this cartridge for Elk and moose, as well as bear, both black and grizzly.
That said, I just purchased a Browning A-Bolt Mountain Ti, which I have scoped with a Zeiss 2.5 - 10 x 42 and had a brake mounted on it. So equipped, it weighs a hair over 7lbs and should be a joy to carry on long hunts. I will take it on my elk hunt this November and have high hopes for it.
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well this could go on for ever.
I've shot elk with a 22-250 at close to 500yrds. and have shot them with 270,300"s.338"S,30-378,338-378. 416"s and a couple not listed. The biggest thing to do GO OUT AND SHOOT YOUR GUN KNOW WHAT IT WILL DO FOR YOU. DONT LEAVE IT IN THE GUN CABNET FOR 11 MONTHS 3 WEEKS OUT OF THE YEAR.
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I have not killed a lot of elk but have had mixed luck with a .30-06, 180 grain having to shoot the bull three times. I lost an elk with a 7mm Rem Mag. Others with .300 H&H have dropped with 180 Partition.
I now have a .340 Bee and consider it to be the penultimate elk and moose cartridge. This cartridge has the power and the range to to the job quickly and finally as long as you can shoot accurately and use reason on the shots that you take.
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For Big Elk i would want the 338-378 Accumark and no i have never shot one but it's looking like that will change soon! I know the ammo is 120.00 + per 20 but Premium ammo and Premium optics just test my Arkansas shooting ability and i LIKE IT! I agree the 300 WM or 300 Win M is plenty but always room in my gunsafe for an Accumark 338-378 and Colorado is the place for that HUGE Elk and eventually i will pull a tag and it will probably be a couple years which will let me decide on which optic to use, the 6x42 or Mark 4 LRT M3 in a 4x would be my second choice but i am partial to fixed powered scopes and i want the illuminated MilDot reticle if i go up to th LRT class scope!
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elk have been killed with every cal. out there..a life time of hunting whitetail deer--mule deer---bear---and the topic of this subject,,ELK..,, i have owned or do own most of them...my prefered cal. for elk is the 338/378 wby mag ,,,,2nd. choise 30/378 wby mag,,,3rd 300 wby mag. USE THE CORRECT BULLET and you will bring home the trophy. I have used all three for 45 years and being raised on a farm with tons of deer helped..I have killed bull elk out to 860 yards with wind and all other factors near perfect.with one shot stone dead,,,and the same for all the game listed ...no braging just the truth.. GOOD LUCK with what ever cal. or gun type you buy,,this list is from experence..they work,, 8) EXTREME
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The Best cartridge for Elk is the 340Wby hands down.
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Really, any caliber above .25 cal. should do the job; but for times when extra punch is needed, a 300 Wby. or 340 Wby. should suit any shot out to around 450 yards. ;)
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Hands down 7mm. Not much difference in diameter. A lot less punch in the shoulder than larger Calibers and they shoot flatter. 168 Berger VLD bullets. Go knock them dead.
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Actually, the 7mmWby isn't any flatter with 160-175gr bullets than the 300Wby is with 180gr bullets. The 7mm will give less recoil, but I don't personally find the 300 to be prohibitive in it's recoil. Either will certainly get the job done, as will a 270Wby using stout 150gr bullets, and that will be a tad flatter than the 160-175gr 7mmWby, as well.
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The 300 WBY loaded with the 165 BTSP is a great round for whitetail and I bet it would be a great round for ELK. It shoots flat and zeroed at 200yds it only drops about 5 1/2 inches at 300 yds. It has mild recoil and the 165 punches a nice hole with plenty of knock down power for any north american big game. Good Hunting
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I vote for the 340 Wby. I can't imagine anything better --at least not with factory ammo.
For example, take Cor-Bon's factory 340 Wby ammo shooting a 225gr/0.514 B.C. Barnes TTSX bullet. If you set the zero to 257 yards, you can have the bullet never rise more than 3 inches above the sight line. And you get the following performance:
Yds / Vel. / Impact / Energy / Drift
000 / 3100/ -1.75 / 4801 / 0.00
050 / 2999 / 0.83 / 4494 / 0.57
100 / 2905 / 2.42 / 4216 / 0.98
150 / 2813 / 3.00 / 3954 / 1.68
200 / 2723 / 2.47 / 3705 / 2.67
250 / 2635 / 0.75 / 3469 / 3.97
300 / 2548 / -2.21 / 3244 / 5.58
350 / 2464 / -6.53 / 3033 / 7.53
400 / 2381 / -12.27 / 2832 / 9.84
450 / 2301 / -19.55 / 2645 / 12.51
500 / 2222 / -28.49 / 2467 / 15.56
Thus, at 400 yards, you are hitting an elk with a 225gr mono-metal bullet at 2,381-fps, which means that you are hammering the elk almost onthe horizen with over 2,832 ft-lbs--about the same as a 30-06 at the muzzle. And your bullet falls only 12 inches below the sight line when it hits. I cannot think of a better elk round than that.
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Bullet selection and placement (practice) will always trump the size of your cannon for executing a humane kill. I've witnessed Remington 180 grain Core-Lokt in .300 Wby completely disintigrate passing through an Elk's shoulder at 300 yards and wasted alot of meat on exit. In another case, my .270 Wby with a 140 grain Nosler BST passed clean through the shoulder, turned the heart into jelly and exited through a rib leaving a single hole (375 yards quartering toward shot). Both animals dropped immediately and never took another step.
So, choose a quality bullet and practice, practice, pratice! I've set-up at my range beside too many fellow Pennsyltucky flat landers heading west for Elk and Mule Deer hunts with huge shoulder cannons (>30 cal) who site-in at 100-yards and never take a shot beyond. Yet, they'll pontificate about the ballistics capability of their round having knock-down power to 800 yards. Few of us possess the skill required to keep 10 shots consistently in a pie pan size target at 400 yards or greater. My guns will always have much more capability to take game at long ranges than I have the skills to execute the shot. Practice at the range like you shoot in the field (get off the bench), and rely on your stalking skills to put you within a comfortable range of your target. JMHO
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Was a lifelong 30.06 user until last year. Then went 300 wby. Would never go back for several reasons. First, the area I hunt is fairly open. The last two 30.06 kills were at 385 and 475. Made the shots but drop, energy loss and distance are excessive and left me questioning my choice. I now use the same 180 gr with 8 inches of drop at 400 yards. Last year I had a group trot thru a postage stamp hole in timber at just over 300, angling towards me. Dropped one clean with a one shot with direct front shoulder hit that passed through all vitals and exited. Personal choice but would not have even fired the 30.06 in the same situation knowing those ballistics. The 300 gives more confidence. I would never want to leave one out there. Also, friends have 340's and 30/378s and they are excellent too. Seen many many kills with 300s tho can say without any doubt you have enough gun for elk with it. In the end go with what you think you think you shoot with greatest confidence.
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Jason:Wow,that is amazing.How many fps are you getting with the 180 grain bullets and what is your zero yardage?
Roger
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Long story but I had issues getting the gun and had to buy the factory Interlocks b/c it was last minute and that was all that was available locally. Did the trick just fine tho. Will probably cut over to TSX this season of it groups well.
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Am I bad.Couldn't resist asking what fps and the zero for 400 yd drop for a 180 g bullet and an only 8 in drop at 400 ids.
Roger
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My gun is sighted in at 3.5 high at 100. Zeroes at 320. 8 inches down at 400. Standard ballistics for the factory round, right?
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What is the best all purpose elk caliber? There's allot that can do the job, but specific to elk what would you choose?
My 1st choice - 300 Weatherby
My 2nd choice - 30-06
I agree. My choice for Elk or all around is the 30-06.
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I have shot cow elk with my .257mag, but I like the 7MM mag for the larger bulls.
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I have witnessed or personally taken elk with everything from .270's through .338's, & just about every possible 30 caliber (including the 30-30). In my experience, more have fallen to the .270 than all others.
My answer to the question is "whatever you shoot best under the sometimes trying conditions encountered in elk country." Use a good bullet, & don't ever relie on a ballistics chart. If you haven't practised at the distance presented to you in the field, then don't take the shot.
Elk are big & tough to knock down, but they are not armor plated. Part of their reputation comes from the fact that they many times give no indication of being hit. For this reason, having a buddy act as a spotter is a great advantage when taking a long shot.
My elk rifle battery includes: a 7 lb. Tikka in .308 for backpacking on skiis & snowshoes, a .358 Blr for mixed open & timber country, a .270 for all around use, & a Mark V in 7mm. Wby. for big open terrain.
We all have our preferences & our prejudices. Pick something that you like, & that you are comfortable with. Practice & it will become your best elk caliber.
Jim
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I basically agree with Jim. I have taken Bull Elk with both 7 mm Rem Mag and 30-06. Excellent kills on all three animals but I waited for a clean kill shot before pulling the trigger. My all time favorite Deer Rifle is the 25-06 so I would love to do a hunt with a 257 Weatherby. It's more about knowing your limits and having the confidence in your weapon of choice.
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7MM Rem Mag would be my all time favorite Elk round. 168 grain Bergers are at the top of my list.
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338-378 period. No other caliber has the long range knock-down power of this awesome gun. 210gr Barnes tipped triple shock bullets and the 338-378 are just simply an awesome combination.
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Jim in colo Wrote
Elk are big & tough to knock down, but they are not armor plated. Part of their reputation comes from the fact that they many times give no indication of being hit. For this reason, having a buddy act as a spotter is a great advantage when taking a long shot.
This is what prompted me to shoot my elk this year with 4 shots with my Vanguard in 300 Win Mag. I was not sure I hit him. He turned and looked right at me and then started to lazily walk to my right. This is when I took the second shot. Then he ran like hell and I couldn't find him in the scope right away but finally did for shot three. Then quickly I ran out towards him as he ran to my right some more around a bluff. I lowered my scope magnification to 3x and aimed and shot again.
I never did see him fall. The guy who had pulled up ran to the top of the hill also shot one shot, for a total of 5 shots. I am not sure if he had to or not, but he said "Go get your elk! He's down!" right after I heard his gun shot. He was shooting a 7mm Rem Mag. Out of the 5 shots taken 3 were good hits and 2 were misses. I would like to think mine were the hits, but I am not sure.
I did recover 2 of the bullets, but the other was a through and through shot a bit high of the heart but through the lungs. I am guessing that this was my first shot. I think my second shot was the one through the front legs at the elbow. I found that bullet and one other from the right hind leg at the knee. I'll need to get out the calipers and measure the bases to see which shots were mine.
Is the 300 Win Mag enough gun? I got mine down, but it sure was a hairy minute or two, where I wasn't sure I was going to or not. I think next year I will be doing some load development for something larger than a 165 Gr bullet. I think I may just step up to a 200 or so Gr bullet. I think that will be good medicine. I used the 165 Gr because I liked the ballistics. I used Hornady Interlocks and they opened nicely and mushroomed real nice too.
Mike!
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Mike,
Last year, my son hit a cow a little too far back at about 225 yards. It was late, so we didn't wait long enough before taking after her on skiis. She had bedded down, but the noise of our approach got her up & going again. He fired again, hitting her through the neck at about 100 yards. She expired shortly thereafter. He was using 165's in his pet 300 Win. Mag. This year, it's back to 180's. Maybe it's just a mental thing, but the 180's seem to kill faster.
Jim
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Jim,
I am debating between the 180 and something bigger. I haven't even researched bigger than 180 yet, so I don't know what may be better. I just know, it really scared the hell out of me when he wouldn't stop. I don't want that to ever happen again. I had to finish him with a 6th shot, but I knew where that one hit, I was only 10 feet away. Neck shot through the spine and then cut the throat and arteries.
Mike!
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Mike,
I have little experience with heavy weight 30 caliber loads, other than a single boar hunt many years ago, where I used 220's in my 30-06 pump rifle.
If you want to experiment without ruining the bank account, buy a box of 200 or 220 Sierras, & see if they shoot accurately from your rifle. If the answer is yes, then go to a tougher bullet for actual load development.
Bull elk have attitude, & can cover a lot of real estate, even if double lunged. So, you'll want a bullet that can handle a shoulder bone without coming apart.
I know a lot of guys that have gone the Barnes route, but with mixed results. Some have had accuracy problems, & some complain that the bullet simply penciled through without expansion. Other guys love them, & will use nothing else.
My sons & I have had good results with Partitions, TBBC's, & plain old cup & core Interlocks. Rifles used have been as big as .338 & .358, & as quick as .270, 300 Win. Mag., & 7mm. Wby. Mag. Impact ranges have varied from 35 yards to just over 300. Most have been chest cavity, with an occasional neck shot. We don't ever take going away hind quarter shots, so I can't give you full body penetration comparisons.
We will be going on a late season cow only hunt just after the New Year. Hopefully, I'll be able to give you some new info when I return.
Jim
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Mike,
Almost everyone has the crazy belief that when you poke a big hole into an animal that death is going to be instant and that game will fall immediately, and that is very rarely true. I would bet good money that your first shot into the elk would have killed him, and that if you had simply frozen and remained dead quiet that your bull would have stopped to die within fifty to one hundred yards. Archers do not fling multiple arrows into an animal. Instead they trust the arrow to do its job. You need to trust your bullets.
If an animal dies instantly, or if it drops in its tracks and does not get back up, you can bet the farm that you have created damage to the brain or spinal column. Poke a big hole anywhere else, and the animal will have to die from blood loss and shock, and they may be strong enough to do that in another county if you keep their adrenilin up by continuing to shoot at them.
If you are confident in your shot, trust the bullet. Give your game 15-30 minutes to pass away quietly just as you would if you had shot it with an arrow. It will save you a great deal of tracking and may even prevent you from losing game.
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I have seen big elk get hit with big calibers, and when he is down and the real work starts then that when you get to clean up the mess you have made. I have seen a whole side of meat on elk rendered useless from being turned into a giant blood clot from shoulder to butt. There is such a thing as over kill. Terrible waste of good meat and a grand animal.
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Dag nab it anyhow ;D
Hindsight is 20/20. I should have bought the Weatherby Nation rifle. Day late and a dollar short. So here is the rest of my story.
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I am going to talk or try to talk my misses into letting me buy another rifle. I have finally decided to get a Vanguard Snythetic in .257. After reading all the data and everyone's opinion. I thought why not. I have a Deluxe 300 Weatherby mag, a 30.06 and the 257 sounds like a good fit.
Merry Christmas Bud
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Well, seeing as though this was the first large animal I have ever taken, and the fact that my whole body was shaking from head to toe, I can tell you that I was not confident in my shot and therefore shot until I could no longer see the animal. The absolute last thing I wanted to do was maim the animal and make him suffer a miserable death. The meat and the antlers were of no importance at that point. Once I finally had him down and knew he had passed, I bent down and kissed his forehead and thanked him for giving his life for the sustenance of my family. I do not take hunting lightly and the animal is more of a concern to me than my own health after the first shot goes flying.
If a larger hole will help make his suffering less than a smaller hole, then I am all for using that tool and not what I used this time.
The first thing I did was ask the guy who showed up if he thought I hit him or if he saw a hit, and he said he could not tell. That's when I made the split second decision to continue to shoot until he was down or out of sight.
Mike!
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Bud:I think you will be very happy with the Vanguard in 257.I sure like mine.
Mike:Some animals just take longer to die than others.Not always a logical reason for it.Going to heavier bullets means more drop usually,so be aware of that also.I think the bullets you are shooting should work well with the groups you get.My motto is if the game is still up,keeping shooting until they are down or you are out of bullets. ;D
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Bud,
I love my .257 Vanguard synthetic. You will love yours too.
Mike,
A heavier bullet has advantages over light weight bullets, but it won't make a bigger hole. It may create a longer hole by providing deeper penetration, but the expanded size of the bullet is not going to change much, if at all.
My friend Terry believes that he should shoot until the animal is down for good, even when that means shooting many times. He hunts for meat, not trophies, and kills much more game than I do. So, when you chose to keep shooting, you did what Terry would have done, and I respect Terry a great deal. I just feel different about it. I will not pull the trigger unless I am certain of the shot. It is HARD to control the excitement of the moment and to remain calm for the shot, but that is part of the thrill of the hunt. I relate that control to fishing with ultra-lite tackle and having to finesse the fish to the net. Taking that extra second or two to enjoy the thrill and excitement, to reassure yourself of the distance, and to select your point of impact wisely, is that perfect moment, that Zen moment to me. That is the thrill of the hunt that matters to me. There is plenty of time for excitement after the echo has faded from the mountains.
Whether it is in the hunt for game or the heat of battle, a cool head and a well placed shot makes a big difference.
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You know I had stated many times before that I am hunting for meat for the family. The better I get at it the less it will cost me, but right now I think Beluga Caviar would be cheaper by the pound. But I never got a thrill out of eating caviar like I do when my family is eating this elk and loving it!
I know it wont be a larger diameter on the entry hole but it may be on the exit. Also, the wound channel aught to be deeper due to the increase in energy. One of our members thinks I should stay with what I am shooting or even go down a size or two. He stated that an increase in hydrostatic shock may occur due to the higher velocities. I'll be researching a quite a bit over the coming months to see if I can come up with a better mousetrap or find out I already have the best one out there. One thing is for sure... I will not be replacing my rifle any time soon! I love my Weatherby rifles. I can't wait til my .243 Win, gets first blood on a deer. That'll be a great day too!
Mike!
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I had to respond to this post as it intrigues me. We all know that unlike it's larger cousin the moose, elk are brutally tough animals. I have pondered the question of whether to bring more lead to the table in a bid to slam the bugger to the ground or use a faster projectile and use the hydro static shock it produces to create additional internal hemoraging.
I further add that I have no experience dealing with hydro static shock. Infact I first learned about it in researching weatherby's history. Have any of you an opinion on the subject, and would you factor it in the desision this thread is debating.
Have a Wonderfull Holiday Season and a Fantastic New Year.
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I real don't believe it is all about a magic caliber . First and foremost is shot placement second I would say is bullet choice. Elk can for sure pack a lot of led for miles if the get their adrenaline going
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Faster is rarely, if ever, better. The only thing you do with faster bullets is ruin more meat. It frequently encourages poor judgement to make longer shots. Just because you may be able to hit something at 1000 yards, doesn't mean it will have the lethality once the bullet gets there. You run the risk of wounding and losing an animal. I have used a 30-30 and a 340 Weatherby for the last two elk that I killed. Both dropped in their tracks. I have used 6mm to 416 Mag on many others, and had a fair bit of success. One of the most important things to remember, is first to use the proper bullet, and second to know the anatomy of the animal you are pursuing.
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If I could only owned one gun it would be a 300 Weatherby and would use it to hunt everything. I have use a 270 WBY with solid success but have had the occasional bullet do some wild bouncing around inside of the carcass. I like the 300 WSM when I am shooting under 300 yards because of its weight and how compact it is to pack around. Next year I will be trying the 257 WBY out for elk as I was extremely happy with its performance during this year’s deer season.
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Both of them can knock down an elk, but the .300 goes farther and can have a bigger impact, i went hunting with my grandpa and he shot an elk 545 yards away with his .300, my answer is 300
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Yes 300 weatherby mag i my #1 preferd choice for elk. :)
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Without question, the .300 Weatherby!
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I have been reading a few of the posts today and came upon yours. Somehow I think you may have made a mistake in your original question, What happen to the 10 optional calibers between the .300 WM and the 30-06. But as it was said before, everybody has their own opinion. To me the 30-06 is a great brush gun.
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I used a 340 Wby on my elk this year. I have used other calibers in the past. One thing you must not do under any circumstances, is go lighter/faster. You WILL ruin more meat that way, and possibly cripple an animal if it doesn't go down. Match the bullet to the game, and you won't have any problems.
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We all know the .340wby is the best elk cartridge ever created.
225gr@3100fps tipped TSX!!!
IMO there is no reason to have a .30-378 over a .300wby.
there's always a tradeoff though, heavy magnum rifle with big fast powerful cartridge?
or something lighter handier perhaps in .30-06, .300wsm, 7mm mag?
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I love my Mark V in .300 WBY and it's been great for the massive russian boar we have here in California. A well placed shot on a bull elk will certainly do the trick, but I've heard stories of people needing 2 or 3 good shots. Last bull elk I shot was in New Mexico and I used my new Beretta .500 Nitro Express. Not a step. Not a breath. Game over. Ethical & painless.
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I'll add my .02. My #1 choice would be the 340 Weatherby. #2 would be the 300 Weatherby.
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What ever you can shoot well. Have killed them with an arrow, 50cal rb out of a muzzleloader,, 30-06, .284 win, .338 win mag and seen them shot with .375 H&H, even a .45acp.. Good shot in heart/lung area does it every time. Fast knockdown by spine or shoulder hit(requires more power and ruins alot of meat.) For most anything , a.270 or up is great.
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Definitely on my bucket list...... I am friends with a husband and wife team in Colorado team who I will hunt with one day. She uses a 270 WSM and h uses a 30-06 and they both have no problem anchoring elk.
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My vote goes to my 7mm Weatherby Magnum loaded with 150 grain Barnes TTSX.
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I would guess the 7 Mag's were developed to give out west hunters a lot of thud in flat shooters. More so than the 270. I would think a bulky monolithic bullet live a 150 0r 160 gr would be perfect.
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This may sound like heresy but this year I will be using my M77 in .338 Win Mag. The area I am hunting in S.W Idaho is fairly open, with some long shots possible.
I will be shooting 250grain NP leaving the muzzle @2800fps this should be good to around 400 yards or so.
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Many have their preference and I have mine. 338-378 with 225gr Barnes TTSX / 105gr RL25. Leaves the barrel at about 3100fps. Plenty of "knock down" energy far past where I am comfortable shooting it (so far). I have been shooting 30-06 most of my life and went on "bucket list" hunt this last fall in Idaho. Had 7mm Mag and 30-06 lined up in that order and practiced with handloads from first of the year. Had my eyes on the 338-378 since Spring when I shot a gentlemans at 500yds at the range. Broke down and bought one mid-summer and put Zeiss scope on it. Was able to get 1" groups at 100 yds with factory ammo and am shooting about 4" groups at 300yds. Shot beautiful bull that was bedded down with one shot at 275 yds. He never got up! The Barnes bullet retained all but about 5gr of weight as we retrieved it from the far side just under the skin. Still working on the "right" handload for this rifle and would appreciate any information folks are willing to share.
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Well the .340 is probably the hammer of choice. However my old man has killed more than a few Wapiti with his .300 Roy and they have all been bang-flops. Granted the old man is a damn fine shot but I'l take my .300.
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I have harvested 12 Elk, all but one killed with 180 Nosler Partitions and one shot kills at that . Yet my grand father took over 40 elk and assorted Mule deer with a 94 Winchester 30-30. The elk have not grown bigger or or resilient to modern ballistics. It's all about bullet placement. and good stalking techniques. Every year I find and photograph elk that still have arrows in them that simply curled up and expired, yet we see numerous trophy s on the hunting channels and magazines that indicate close in hunting evidence an perfect shot placement but poor shot placements seem to happen. I prefer the 300 weatherby Mag it has never failed me and delivers down range shock and seems to drop them in their tracks ...with the right bullet placement.
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I have harvested 12 Elk, all but one killed with 180 Nosler Partitions and one shot kills at that . Yet my grand father took over 40 elk and assorted Mule deer with a 94 Winchester 30-30. The elk have not grown bigger or or resilient to modern ballistics. It's all about bullet placement. and good stalking techniques. Every year I find and photograph elk that still have arrows in them that simply curled up and expired, yet we see numerous trophy s on the hunting channels and magazines that indicate close in hunting evidence an perfect shot placement but poor shot placements seem to happen. I prefer the 300 weatherby Mag it has never failed me and delivers down range shock and seems to drop them in their tracks ...with the right bullet placement.
Amen, well said.
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.300 wby in the ultralightweight rifle is my all time favorite. i've used my .338-.378 wby with excellent results, but the rifle is heavy and the muzzlebrake takes some getting used too. i'm recoil sensitive enough i won't take off the brake. my .300 is on the upper end of my recoil tolerance level but it hits where i aim and is a pleasure to pack around. it also hits very hard. have taken 3 elk at over 400 yrds with a .300 with no problems.used the 180gr grand slam in my old .300 and most elk dropped right there. am using 180 gr barnes ttsx with my ultra light and am pretty happy with them. took a wolf, bull, bear, and whitetail with it this year. the bull took two rounds but was probably dead on his feet after the first round. everything else was drt. good all around rifle for the lower 48.
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shot placement is everything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18
this vdeo displays that
awhile back i read an article that roy weatherby shot a cape buffalo with a 257 weatherby mag
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The 300 wby is one of the worlds best all around hunting cartridges a 200 gr nosler accu bond or 200 ,gr partition are perfect elk medicine the 300 wby really comes into its own when loaded owith the 200gr bullets at 3000fps this is a hammer do the math a 200 nosler accubond with a .588 bc at 3000fps gives nothing up to the 338 super mags .if I could only hunt with one rifle it would be a 300 wby
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could not agree more, read an article a few years ago that said before 1950 90% of ALL big game shot in North America from Polar Bear to coyotes were with a 30-06, 300 savage, 30-30 or a 270 winchester.and that in the 1950's the .243 and .308 entered into the equasion.and since the 60's the magnum "bigger is better" has pretty much taken over.personaly all my elk have been with a .300 win. or .308win.both in a model 70.(if I plan on going a long way or up I use the lighter .308 for that day) the area I hunt(south central cascade mts. of wash.) I see more 7MM rem. mag, 300 win mag and 338 win mag
more then anything with a few 7mm and 300 weatherby's.
in 1995 or 96 i was in a restuarant in Cody,wy and read on article in a local paper about a local ranch woman in her 70's that had just taken her 60th elk,all with a .257 roberts given to her by her dad for her 16th birthday.
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I have to agree with the 300 magnums. Win mag is almost as good as wby mag in my opinion. That said, shot placement is critical. I have taken 9 elk with my 7mm Rem Mag shooting 150 grain Nos Ball Tips at 3150 FPS. One of those was a large cow at 325 yards and found the bullet just under the skin on the far side, (jacket only, lead core passed clear through). This year's cow was at 60-70 yards, quartering away hard from left to right. Bullet went in right behind last rib on right side and was just under the skin in front of the left shoulder. Well over 24" of penetration there. I would not expect that kind of penetration at 400 yards, but I wouldn't have tried the shot either, at that angle any further away.
My grandad killed multiple large elk with a 32 Win Spc. also in a Model 94. The perfect elk caliber I think has more to do with preference, ranges, ballistics, etc. There are too many factors to accurately describe one rifle. In Western Washington brush I would probably go for a 35 whelen or 30-30. In SE Idaho, I prefer my 7mm, but a good shooting 338 or 300 would do just as well.
IG
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Bennie, the 7mm rem mag is simply the .264 win.mag necked up to 7mm.
have at times necked up 264 to use in a 7mm and necked down 264 to use in a 264.