Spike Camp

Your Gun Rack => Reloading => Topic started by: edgecrum on June 21, 2018, 07:33:49 PM

Title: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on June 21, 2018, 07:33:49 PM
I've searched around trying to find information regarding the strange findings I'm having while working up a load for my Vanguard First Lite.

Load workup as follows:

127 LRX
CCI 250
COAL 3.60
US 869

I've worked up from 90.5 to 94 grains. Best group I've found so far is 1.25 inches with most being closer to 2 inches at 100 yards.

The strange thing I'm seeing and what I would like some more experienced loaders to help me with is that I'm seeing no velocity increase when going from 92.5 to 94 grains.

4 3 shot groups of 92.5, 93, 93.5,94 grains respectively. First shot at 92.5 grains was 3430 fps. the group averaged 3420. Each group after that averaged 3430. Still not showing much signs of pressure at 94.. no ejector marks, primers not flattened, bolt lift still normal.

Also, doesnt this velocity seem a little lower that what I should expect? The gun has full 26 inch barrel.

I load and shoot to a mile with my 300 win mag with 190 Bergers no problem. 1600 with my 6.5 Creedmoor. My 257 load is 110 Accubond at 3450 sub half MOA. I'm at a loss.

Any advice?
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: badsection on June 22, 2018, 05:04:07 AM
I would try another weight bullet and see if the rifle prefers something else.  Welcome to the nation.   :)
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: oregonmarkv on June 22, 2018, 11:59:33 AM
Welcome, my load is 140g accubond with 91g US869, F 215 primer 3400fps. Your load with 94 g should be going around 3550 fps, my rifle don't like the 127 lrx and I have more confidence in cup and core bullets. I would try a accubond or ballistic tip or try seating your 127 g deeper. I believe factory length is 3.50
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on June 22, 2018, 12:25:23 PM
I have 143 ELD-X on hand. I was considering loading some of those. I have the US869, Retumbo and H1000 on hand. I also have a box of the factory LRX on the way. I'm not interested in running 100 shots through this thing to find a load if I can help it with the barrel life being what it is.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on June 25, 2018, 05:21:27 PM
So 91 grains US 869 and the 143 ELD-X yielded a half MOA group at 100 yards. I'm puzzled by the velocity though. The group averaged 3280 fps.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: oregonmarkv on June 26, 2018, 07:20:40 AM
I think that your chrony is off, maybe you can borrow another to try. I think you would be around 3350 fps unless you have a slow barrel or maybe I have a fast one. But a 1/2 in group with that high BC bullet is an excellant load.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on June 26, 2018, 07:37:33 AM
Ok so here is today's plans. I have a box of Weatherby 127 LRX on hand. I also am loading some of the 91g ELDX loads. I have my magnetospeed and my optical chronograph. I will see if the numbers add up.

Of note :  My barrel after around 30 shots was heavily copper fouled. So I just finished pulling the copper and it's surgical clean right now.

We shall see.

Also : Does anyone have first hand experience with the performance on white tail sized game with the ELDX at these velocities?
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: oregonmarkv on June 26, 2018, 07:58:04 AM
You my have to shoot a few shots with a clean barrel to regain accuracy, I also used a Magneto speed. The 127 factory went 3540 fps from my MarkV, no experience with the ELDX but they should kill a deer like a stroke of lightning.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on June 26, 2018, 08:28:43 AM
4 shots factory LRX.  1 fouler then 3 for group. Grouped just under 1 inch. Velocity checked with both chronos. No errors. 3384-3377,3350-3356,3349-3351,3397-3394. Spoke to CS rep at Weatherby and he's sending me a complimentary box of the 127 in case the box I bought was a bad batch. The mystery continues.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on July 02, 2018, 04:52:52 AM
So I finally decided to give the ELDX velocity chase another try. My hottest load until this point was 91 Grains of US869 which yielded and average MV of 3280. I loaded up 3 loads each of 92 and 93 grains. I didn't chronograph the 92 grain load but I did the 93 grain load. The 93 grain load was definitely on the hot end of things. Bolt lift a little tough and some pressure signs on the base. However they went over the chronograph at 3425 with a 1 inch group that I feel was actually better but my shooting hurt the group slightly. I can work with 1 inch groups since my longest shot on game is around 450.

I'm tempted to just run with that load even though it is definitely hot considering how few shots the gun will get and the temp during these tests was 95. I feel that during hunting conditions a *slight* pressure drop may take place.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: Blackbear3 on July 03, 2018, 03:42:05 PM
Personally I would back off a 1/2 grain and see how the velocity and groups are at 92 1/2?
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: .257 on July 03, 2018, 05:03:49 PM
Your longest shot is 450, at a whitetail.
IMO l would go with the load that produces 1/2" groups with no pressure.
Your other load has  obvious pressure signs and is going 145 fps faster. You will gain every little in  trajectory and you have more than enough gun for deer hunting so the added energy really isn't needed
Stay with the load that is giving great  accuracy and is trouble free
Once again just my opinion
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: oregonmarkv on July 03, 2018, 06:06:00 PM
I would back off 1g and try it, 1/2 grain won't make much difference when you are burning 90+ grains of powder.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: cacsrx1 on July 11, 2018, 08:59:13 AM
Ok so here is today's plans. I have a box of Weatherby 127 LRX on hand. I also am loading some of the 91g ELDX loads. I have my magnetospeed and my optical chronograph. I will see if the numbers add up.

Of note :  My barrel after around 30 shots was heavily copper fouled. So I just finished pulling the copper and it's surgical clean right now.

We shall see.

Also : Does anyone have first hand experience with the performance on white tail sized game with the ELDX at these velocities?

I have had stellar accuracy and terminal performance running the ELDX's at 3400+.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on July 12, 2018, 03:10:18 PM
Spoke to a very knowledgeable guy at Weatherby today. Unfortunately a while back they weren't meeting accuracy requirements at an acceptable level so they changed from a 5 groove to a 4 groove barrell setup. Fixed their accuracy problems but hurt velocity in the neighborhood of around 100 fps. So apparently I basically have a 26 Nosler.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on July 12, 2018, 03:38:14 PM
Cacsrx1... What are you seeing terminal performance wise on the Eldx. Many pass through? Functioning more like a Berger?
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: cacsrx1 on July 13, 2018, 10:16:25 AM
Pass through on antelope, no pass through on large white tails(270 lbs). Heart and lungs look like we’re ran through a blender.  105 to 638 yds.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on July 13, 2018, 06:12:47 PM
My previous loads that were sub MOA, including factory LRX no longer are. I'm not, at this point, happy with my purchase. I'll be calling Weatherby back this week. I wish so much I had opted for another 257 or a browning hells canyon 28 nosler.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: terminator on July 13, 2018, 07:25:46 PM
Spoke to a very knowledgeable guy at Weatherby today. Unfortunately a while back they weren't meeting accuracy requirements at an acceptable level so they changed from a 5 groove to a 4 groove barrell setup. Fixed their accuracy problems but hurt velocity in the neighborhood of around 100 fps. So apparently I basically have a 26 Nosler.
Now this is interesting.Who did you talk to? Maybe someone from Weatherby will tell us about this issue and changes made?
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: .257 on July 13, 2018, 07:28:30 PM
Hope you keep us posted on this, l am really  curious about what would all of a sudden make a rifle not shoot a load it  previously was. Without some  altercation done to the rifle, bedding, changing the pressure point if it has one etc.
You must be a very  experienced reloaded and marksman to shoot at a mile with no problem, and shooting a 6.5 creedmore to 1600 yards. When most say a creedmore is all but done at 1000, 1100 yards max.
I do have a couple questions, how many rounds have you fired after cleaning, and have you checked action  screws for  proper torque, scope ring screws also
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: oregonmarkv on July 13, 2018, 08:00:51 PM
Sounds like you need to try a different scope if all of a sudden it won't shoot a known accurate load.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on July 14, 2018, 03:54:12 AM
Action screws from the factory were torqued less than spec. I found this out when I installed my timney trigger. They are torqued to Weatherby specs at this point. Shooting to 1600 with the Creedmoor was done with an SMK loaded to 2700 fps. As far as being a marksman I don't consider myself a marksman. I just play with my guns a lot. 1600 with the Creedmoor results in about a 5 foot group to be honest. My win mag at a mile maybe 4 foot. On an excellent day no wind I'd say my Creedmoor without flyers and me pulling the shot averages about a basketball at 1000?. I'm going to recheck groups today. Perhaps I was frustrated and not shooting my best.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on July 15, 2018, 10:15:25 AM
Took it to 300 yards with factory LRX. I figure based on how the shots broke the gun is doing at least 25% better than the group shows. Anyhow the group measured 3 1/16 inch which works out to slightly under 1 MOA.

Weatherby told me I should expect around 80 or more fps increase at around 80 shots through the barrell and as it turns out velocities with all loads are going up. Factory LRX did average 3350 are now just over 3400.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: .257 on July 15, 2018, 12:33:45 PM
Glad this is working out for you

My latest gun addition is a Savage model 116 with a 26" #3 barrel in 6.5X284.
Loading a ELD-X 143 grain, it took over 40 rounds to find a load that would shoot, and it is still getting better
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on July 16, 2018, 07:54:25 AM
I had spoke to a guy the first time in customer service and explained my velocity issues, he sent me another box of factory LRX. I shot those, the velocity was still around 3350 so I called back and talked to a lady in customer service. Once explaining everything to her she agreed that I would send back some spent casings and my rifle to them to look everything over. I called back the next day with serial numbers to get an RMA. She asked if I was the guy with the 6.5 300 she had spoken to and I told her yes. She said hang on I have someone for you to talk to. A guy got on the phone -- I think he said he was the Head CS guy. He got on the phone and said he had some bad and embarrassing news. He said that when they came out with this caliber they did in fact publish accurate information regarding their velocity but over time the barrels weren't meeting accuracy demands. So he believes about a year ago they changed from a 5 groove to a 4 groove setup. The accuracy demands were met but they did in fact lose around 100 fps and they are aware of it. I told him how bad my bore fouls and he said that was to be expected. My gun goes from surgical clean to fouled even in the grooves in around 5 shots.... literally copper everywhere at the bore. He also told me they were seeing a good jump in velocity at about round 80 through the barrells--and this seems to be accurate as my velocities are going up.

The problem I have is that the .26 Nosler was king of the .264 caliber guns regarding velocity. Weatherby trumped that with the long awaited 6.5-300. Published the data, advertised the data, sold lots of guns. Unknown to the rest of us they have changed their barrell setup which lowered performance but are still selling the guns based on old data that is no longer accurate.

Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: cacsrx1 on July 16, 2018, 08:33:23 AM
The Barnes bullets aren't helping your copper fouling problems......., and 80 rounds through the barrel would not be acceptable for me.  These things have a short barrel life to begin with.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on July 16, 2018, 09:05:31 AM
Or isn't acceptable to me either. Spoke with manager at Weatherby again and am offered no further solutions. I told them what I've expressed above his suggestion was try to return it or sell it. I asked for further box of another factory bullet to try but he wouldn't do that either.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: oregonmarkv on July 16, 2018, 09:55:42 AM
Was this rifling groove change just on the Vanguard or o In the MarkV also. I bought a Accumark and a ULW when they first came out and they both shot good with certain loads and at published velocities. My ULW shot a 3 shot 3/4 inch group at 350 yards with my 140g accubond load going 3400 fps., a fourth shot made it a 1 1/4 inch group. I think there are other members who are getting published velocities and good accuracy.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on July 16, 2018, 10:27:40 AM
I asked about the Mark V. He said those changed also. I took it that some original barrell were fine, if not great but too many weren't making the cut running up costs. Count the grooves in your bore. Mine is a 4 groove.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: oregonmarkv on July 16, 2018, 10:54:25 AM
Well he must be mistaken or don't know what he is talking about because my MarkV ULW has 6 lands and grooves and no I DID NOT miscount and I marked every one and counted 4 times. So apparently it is just the Vanguards. Mybe someone else with newer MarkV can check theirs.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on July 16, 2018, 10:57:17 AM
Gotcha, mine is a 4 groove.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: oregonmarkv on July 16, 2018, 12:13:51 PM
I just checked my other MarkV's a new 340 Weathermark and a1982 vintage 7mm WBY. and they both have 6 grooves. Maybe someone who knows barrels can chime in and tell us why a 4 groove would shoot slower and more accurate.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: cacsrx1 on July 16, 2018, 02:52:33 PM
Well he must be mistaken or don't know what he is talking about because my MarkV ULW has 6 lands and grooves and no I DID NOT miscount and I marked every one and counted 4 times. So apparently it is just the Vanguards. Mybe someone else with newer MarkV can check theirs.
My early order Accumark is the came as yours.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on July 19, 2018, 05:41:24 PM
So today I shot 3 shots with 140 Accubond. A wise man shared his load data with me and it resulted in just over half MOA. The three velocities were 3372,3373,3393. I'll double check this load at longer range but with only very slight pressure signs it looks like I have a winner. 91g US 869. Thank you oregonmarkv.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: oregonmarkv on July 20, 2018, 06:57:00 AM
You are welcome, that load will work for any thing you need to hunt with a 6.5 caliber and now you are getting 6.5-300 WBY. velocities. I would not be surprised if it shot better at longer range, mine shot a 4 shot 1 1/4 in. at 350 yards and I did not try to duplicate that just took it and was happy.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on July 23, 2018, 09:06:44 AM
Took the aforementioned load to 300 today. Ended up with a 300 yard zero about 2.5 inch group, some of which was probably me. This VX3 scope has pretty significant parralax issues at 300 yards so I'm happy. After that I swung over to my 400 yard steel and used Kentucky windage for around 7 inch drop and landed 3 shots in about a 4 inch circle at great elevation. Now I'll load up 50 and the next shot will be at a critter.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: oregonmarkv on July 23, 2018, 12:58:21 PM
Excellent, you are good to go.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: BB340 on July 23, 2018, 05:21:17 PM
Good to hear you got it all dialled in. Look forward to seeing some critters you get with it.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: Smackdown on August 02, 2018, 11:11:15 AM
What have you guys been able to find (if much of anything) with the Hornady 143 eldx bullets? I have a Vanguard I'm doing load development on and have tried pushing a wide range of loads with the US869 as well as a few other powders but have been unable to find acceptable accuracy. I have had tremendous success with the bullets preformence on game and I would like to stick with this bullet as I will be hunting at longer distance (if I can get acceptable accuracy) Also how many loads are you guys getting out of brass? Thanks!
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: oregonmarkv on August 02, 2018, 11:52:54 AM
Welcome to the forum: I use only new brass for hunting but some of my target brass is on it's fourth load and the primer pockets are still tight. US869 and Nosler 140g acc. going 3400fps.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: edgecrum on September 25, 2018, 02:02:06 PM
I've shot this gun twice at feral hogs. Both about 100 lbs. One at 225 yards, the other about 100. Both shoulder broadside. Complete passthrough with the accubond. Both dropped in their tracks.
Title: Re: 6.5-300 Load Help
Post by: Blackbear3 on September 25, 2018, 02:55:53 PM
Good shooting, post some pictures if you get a chance.