Spike Camp
Your Gun Rack => Handguns => Topic started by: 240mag on January 19, 2010, 09:26:58 PM
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Hi All, Im in the process of getting my first handgun, Im not familiar at all with the guns or cartridges but would like something for target practice and deer size animals?
I would like something with affordable ammo and not to much recoil (if thats an issue with handguns?)
Does anyone have any suggestions in regards to guns and cal.
Cheers,
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A great beginners handgun is the 357 magnum. While it is a little on the light side for deer hunting, it has some great benefits. Because you can fire 38 special it is cheaper to practice with, develop your stance and become familier with the recoil, etc. Then you can step up to the heavier loaded magnum rounds. Once you develop the skills, you can step up to the larger caliber that can give you signifigantly longer shots. For a beginners brand, everybody has a favorite and most companies produce an excellent product. I would suggest Taurus, keeping in mind you may change your mind and never hunt with it and just want to get rid of it. The initial cost is generally lower. They have a pretty good range of pistols to choose from, and the warranty is transferable. this tends to make it easier to sell if you decide to quit handgunning or want to move up to a .460. For cons on taurus they manufacture military grade firearms, that is the tolerances are a little looser vs S&W. This results in reduced accuracy, but a beginner will not notice. It also allows more shots fired between cleanings.
Good luck with your decision, if possible go to a range and rent what ever you can and try them out.
If you are looking to buy a used handgun make sure you know what to look for or have it checked by a gunsmith before firing. It was looking at a used 44mag today that had the wrong cylinder in it. The cylinder did not align properly!
Anyway happy hunting.
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Thanks for that. I was thinking about the 357mag actually. it seems it can push a 125gr bullet at 1600f/s with 710ft/lbs of energy. Not sure what that compares to other cals?but to me it should drop a deer at close range with no problem, even a small pig i imagine.
What would be the next best cal up from that, and is recoil an issue with handguns? I've been a rifle man most of my life and know that a begginer can develop a flinch if the recoil is too great. Is there the same thing with handguns?
Cheers,
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240 : I agree with DJ, 357 mag min, possibly at 10mm auto, 41 mag or 44 mag. I wouldn't go by published figures for energy or muzzle velocities, too many variables in velocity in bbl length and actual killing performance of bullets. In general heavier bullets per caliber are prefered for handgun hunting for larger game. 160 to 180 gr LBT style bullets in the 357 , 10mm 155 on up to 200 gr, 41's usually 210's, 44's 180 to 320 gr. You can can kill deer with the lighter bullets no doubt, but why take the chance when there are better options. The problem with most handgun bullets is depending on type cannot be depended upon expansion or lack thereof which is not a bad thing for game larger than deer, due to construction, impact velocity, and range all play a part. Pick your bullets wisely. Hard cast LBT bullets with a wide flat meplat (flat nose) are the best bullets going for larger game, and will do nicely on deer, smaller bear, smaller hogs given correct shot placement.
For the most part Taurus maked a decent gun, but I prefer the larger Smith's or Rugers. If it were me I would go with a 44 mag and if you have the capability of re-loading download to 44 special velocities to build up to the mag performance. I have some lighter 357's that just bite on recoil and a friend has a Taurus that unless he changes grips refuse to shoot due to the grip checkering too sharp. Hogue grips are my favorite unless shooting a single action Ruger.
You can go with a 357 just know there are limitations, and would be my bare bone min even with hot loads.
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I use a 357 Magnum for deer hunting. I handload the 158gr Hornady HP/XTP bullets. The last deer I got was 200lbs., I hit it in both lungs and heart at 65 yards, It ran for 100 yards then collapsed.
I used a S&W 686 8" barrel. The kick is enough to jerk your aim off but IMO not enough to cause a flinch.
Shot placement is the key with the 357; I am sure a 44 mag would cause more damage and trauma, but some people will definitely flinch with it.
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I would suggest the Smith & Wesson 686 with a 4" barrel. It's a good starter handgun. You can also shoot milder 38 special ctgs. for practice. It is an all around handgun. I always carry a 4" 357 when afield, and it's good for self defense also.
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I read your post last night, but did not have time to respond until now. I have some pretty strong opinions on first handguns and handguns for deer hunting.
If you have the money, get a Browning Buckmark 22lr first, as you will learn stance, trigger control, and sight picture with that much more easily than with a centerfire. Of course, that's going to add a few hundred to the price of admission.
I started with a 357Mag revolver. Mine is a Taurus, stainless steel, fixed sight, 4" barreled gun. I absolutely love it. I bought it in 1992, I believe, but maybe early 1993. I've put several thousand rounds through it (I know, because I've bought seven 500ct boxes of 148gr Double Ended Wad Cutters and I'm down to just a couple hundred in the most recent box now). I used to shoot this thing a lot. It is nicely accurate, easily printing six shots into 3-4" at 25yds, which is plenty good for self defense purposes. When I was shooting it a ton, I actually shot a lot of sub-2" groups at 25, shooting double action. My best was 1.56", and I'm still proud of that group. Bear in mind I handload, and these groups were shot with lightweight plinking rounds, using those lead wadcutters. I have shot everything up to full-house magnum loadings with heavier jacketed hollow points, as well. Accuracy falls off for me when the big stuff gets up to fireball status, but only to about 5-6" at 25-30yds. I suspect with some practice, I could maintain 5" at 50yds, but I haven't spent the time on it.
As for deer hunting, I think the 357Mag is barely sufficient, if that. I carry mine as a 'backup' gun when hunting, and I keep in mind that I would only use it if I were close, and sure of my ability to make the shot. I'd move up to a 10mm, 41Mag, 44Mag, or 45LC if I were going to hunt with a handgun as my primary weapon.
Taurus guns get a lot of grief about quality, but I've had excellent service out of mine, and I have several friends who have them who will agree with my assessment.
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My favorite handgun for hunting,that I use to quite abit of is the 45 Colt in a ruger Black Hawk or if you can find a Red Hawk in 45 Colt that even better ,I had one that would shoot 240 gr Siera hp into 2 inches at 50 yds,even loaded 335 gr gascheck bullats with 21 gr of H110 or you can load them light with plinking loads and very little recoil,just make sure its a blackhawk or redhawk the other 45 colt saa clone will come apart when loaded up,check Hogdon load data for tc and ruger blackhawk load data.
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I do agree with Duby; If you haven't shot a lot of handguns a 22LR is a good place to learn. I started when I was a kid on a High Standard 22LR and have shot all the new super mags and my pain level is still around 44 mags or hot loaded 45 LC. Although the old Dan Wesson 445 super mag is one of my favorites. A good friend has one and quite comfortable to shoot given half a chance I would buy one.
This is just food for thought the 10mm in semi auto form doesn't lend itself for lite plinking loads unless you re-spring to match loads. The S & W model 610 revolver you can shoot lite to heavy loads as with any of the other revolvers. This is where hand loading can be a real atvantage matching your ammo to it's use.
Gun weight, good trigger pull, good sights whether iron, scope or electronic, and good grips all play a part.
If you are using the gun as an all around for plinking carry, and sometimes hunting nothing less than a 4 " bbl. For pure hunting and some plinking not as a back-up sacraficing a little carry ability nothing less than a 6 " bbl. For hunting with longer bbls than 6" or scoped guns I use an in the front chest shoulder holster. Although I do use a belt holster on a 7 1/2 " superblackhawk sometimes and is not the most confortable for me to carry, short legs. If you are pretty tall you will probably be able to get away with it.
Heavier guns less recoil, good grips less recoil. You take a very lite gun in 357 on up they are not fun to shoot for very long with max loads. Stick with a heavier model in the high 30's to 40 ounce + range which are much more recoil forgiving.
For me where I live deer can sometimes be larger, larger black bear & mtn lion's is always a consideration. I feel a little more comfortable with a very hot loaded 10mm as my carry gun or if hunting a 44 mag. Most of my friend's carry 357's, 9mm's, 40's & 45 acp's as back-ups, but not their primary hunting handgun. I seen a guy one time not one of my friends shoot an elk with a 357 and was a disaster what a moron. To be good with a hangun expect to shoot and practice a lot. A good 686 is a very good gun as are some of the others. I still think it's needs a little more power for me to seriously consider for deer hunting. I look at it this way given the perfect shot any caliber will work it's when things go wrong the larger calibers are much better suited for punching thru on less than ideal shots.
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We can't hunt with pistols in Canada, but I do shoot them at the club a lot. I have a High Standard Victor semi auto 22lr, a super accurate pistol and it costs pennies to shoot. Hand gunning can get expensive ( with center fire calibers if you get addicted ) The 22 is great to learn on and satisfies the itch when I don't have any 9mm ammo loaded.
James
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I agree with what Ron said concerning down loading the 44 mag to 44 specials or the 45 colt can be down loaded as well,when loaded to hunting velocitys the 45 colt does produce less pressure,the 22 long rifle is a good learning tool but you cant load a 250 gr bullet into when its time to go hunting.the 357 mag will leave you walking around saying what for the rest of the day if you forget your hearing protection.
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Thanks a lot for all your advice. I'm very much leaning towards the 357mag as I only plan to own 1 hand gun and already have a full time job hand loading my 240wbymag, So will just be using factory ammo.
Now has far as a gun goes what would your recommendations be as far as revolvers vs. pistols and barrel length? I don’t think my hands are very big so I guess I wouldn’t want something too big. Also I’m not to keen on customising it so would like something nice straight off the shelve if that’s possible.
It wont be my primary hunting gun, just a back up. I suppose with any cal other then the 22lr hearing protection will be a must at the range, but in the field will hearing protection be required for 1 or 2 shots at an animal?
I manage fine without hearing protection with my 240mag and 270win when out hunting.
Cheers,
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240 : If you have range or someone you know that will let you shoot these gun's or go out with you. I highly recommend getting first hand experience shooting a varity and see what you like. Shoot both lite loads and mags. Strap them on and see if the added weight and bulk is something you are comfortable with. I learned a long time ago it's not the best idea to carry a large framed handgun along with a rifle when hunting and trying to climb mtns. It like to beat me to death climbing the Sierra's with a 44 & 270. If I do carry a back-up it's usually a 38 spec airweight along with a rifle. If I'm just out by myself walking and decide not to carry a rifle I carry a 10mm auto. If I'm handgun hunting it's a 44mag with no rifle. Some guy's like to carry the larger handguns along with a rifle and that's OK. It's just too much extra weight and they get in the way for me on those longer hikes.
If you are going to hunt deer with it at all again a hot loaded 357 is bare bones min.
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I always wear hearing protection for every caliber when at the range especially indoors. A 22lr indoors is quite loud, I even double up sometimes with ear plugs and muffs on top. In the field I never wear ear protection, need to hear everything around me. I never seem to hear or feel recoil when shooting at game.
James.
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Thats a good idea, I'll definatly try to fire off a few rounds of a few different cals before i buy one of my own. I'll most likley only use it for hunting if i come across an animal thats 50m or less away, which is quite rare in my region. most of the shooting will be at the range while i'm waiting for my rifle barrell to cool down i guess. I already have a few shotguns, rifles and a bow so the only thing i'm missing in my collection is a handgun, ha. Sling shot would be next on the list except there illegal over here.
Thanks again for all the advise.
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If you have a shooting range near you that rents handguns, try out a couple different brands as well as calibers.  There are huge target grips that may be too big, and small round-butt grips may be too small.  The grip size will make as much or more difference than brand of revolver.  Until you are comfortable with .38 Special loads in your .357, stick with them.  You can start with light target loads and work up to "service" loads in the .38 before jumping to the magnum rounds.
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Go with a 44 mag and never look back. They can be loaded down using 44 spl brass. Super Redhawk is what I have. I like it but Ruger's have some pretty stiff triggers out of the box. Might not be a bad idea to start out with a 22 in either double or single action and then get your big gun to match. I agree with the Tarus being a good quality revolver I have had a Model 431 3 inch 44 spcl for many years. It shoots about as good as any revolver I ever owned. A five shot speed loader is kinda funny lookin though.
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Howdy,
To all Weatherby Nation members please heed my warning. I am a Lifetime SASS member and have been with this organization since the beginning. I also do mounted shooting and until recently belonged to a group in New Mexico and California.
How the meat of this warning.
45 LC SAA old black powder frame revolvers cannot and I repeat cannot handle hot loads. The back/top strap and cylinders have a tendency to come apart in these areas. They may handle several rounds and they may not; however, the bottom line is eventually they will fail in these areas first. I have seen this happen on more than one occasion.
SASS no longer allows hot loads being using during competition. Factory loads or safe and so are hand loads as long as you do not push things to extremes. Remember the SAA was never designed for modern powders and the pressures they produce. Colt is not as robust as Ruger Vaquero's. If you want a supercharged SAA go with a Ruger 44 mag.
Lastly, shoot what you can handle safely. I use a 357 Colt King Cobra, Sig and Colt 45's, along with SAA's in 45LC and 38/357. My Marlin rifles in 38/357 have a better quick kill ratio than do my 45LC's.
I absolutely do not like 9MM. If you want a fast bullet with a better trauma area than the 9MM go with a 22 mag or a SIG 357. NO LIE. The 22 mag has a better trauma area then the 9MM. The 9MM is so fast it shoots through stuff. You'll have to trust me on this one. MY data comes from a forensic doctor in Florida that I used to work with, hunt with and train with.
I am very opinionated about calibers and ballistics and I will keep most of that to myself. I do sincerely want to pass on to you some of my knowledge and I cannot over emphasize the importance of safety first.
Respectfully,
Bud Perryman
USN retired Specops EOD Master Blaster
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The .357 is very good. But, if you truly are looking at just one handgun then I suggest the Smith & Wesson 460 Magnum. It shoots that, the 454 Casul and the 45 Colt.
I own one of these magnificent weapons and enjoy shooting it. Mine has the long barrel and is quite heavy. The weight absorbs most of the recoil experienced with the 460 Magnum rounds. But, you need not start with the 460 magnum rounds, you can start with the 45 Colt rounds which are readily available and inexpensive.
Warning. Should you elect to get one of the Smith & Wesson 460 magnum revolvers, make certain that you heed the warnings and hold it properly when shooting it. I understand that some have been injured badly because they ignored the warnings and held it improperly when shooting it.
So, perhaps you might want to read up on this pistol. The range of game it has killed goes up to and includes those among the African top 5.
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I agree with zonie and duby, .357 is bare minimum for deer. I guarentee that if you enjoy shooting the .357, you wil quickly move up to the .44 mag. Save the grief & money & get the .44. Ruger Super Redhawk is an excellant choice. Don't know what kind of press you have, but if you can't reload pistol rounds, maybe you can find someone that can load some light loads to start out with.
Also, I had my first shot at a deer with my .454 cassul w/out hearing protection, ears rang for a week!
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My dad put a .44 mag in my mule or rhino for protection i really dont know if it can kill a deer but it leaves a bullet whole the size of a baseball in a squirrel, and it kind of has kick but not a lot becuase its pretty heavy.
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Try a used 9mm. There are all kinds of them around used and you can get ammo for 17 cents/round new. Not my kind of gun but they're all over the place and you can get them used cheap.