Spike Camp

Hunting with Weatherby => African => Topic started by: md11 on September 19, 2010, 05:30:23 PM

Title: too much gun?
Post by: md11 on September 19, 2010, 05:30:23 PM
hi all,

For now I'm just going to enjoy shooting, and smaller game hunting in North America but at some point I want to plan and go on a dream Safari trip... Just curious, I keep getting (though not from everyone) a constant theme that the .460 is "Too much gun" for even the hunts in Africa..  They say stuff like... "sell it and get a 458 or 375" or "you'll hate shooting it, cause it's got too much kick" to which I say that mine comes with a muzzle brake.. and then I get a "but that's going to make it too loud and the PH's won't allow it"..  I can't seem to win.  I love my .460, I shot it well, and I don't want to sell it.   Are these on-line forum guys correct? or shall I stick with my guns (pardon the pun) and bring my 460 on the Safari .. Going for Cape Buff one of these days (or years)..   I do have a 300 Win Mag but that's below regulation's from what I understand.

It just seems like there is a lot of childish hate towards this caliber..

thanks all

Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: terminator on September 19, 2010, 07:37:07 PM
Too much  gun:No such thing if you are comfortable with it and can hit.If a PH won't accept you with a Brake, find one that will.I guarantee you will.I wanted to take a 257 for plains game and some said it would not work.Screw them, I found one that was very reputable and would.
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: mossie on September 19, 2010, 08:37:34 PM
I agree with Rodger, there is no such thing as to much gun. Aspesialy when it comes to CapeBuff, any reputable PH will tell you bring the biggest gun you are comfortable shooting. I am from Namibia and I come from a hunting family and all my family will tell you if you messup on the big five your life is in danger till that animal is dead or you are back home in the USA.
It has been done with smaller gun, but why take the risk if you own a 460 and you shoot it well.
Be safe, shoot straight and make sure you can shoot follow up shots fast. Very few guys can say they dropped CapeBuff with one shot. Maybe start working on a load that will hold together in those buffs.
Gary ;)
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: marty44 on September 20, 2010, 01:45:31 PM
If you like shooting the 460, more power to you (pun intended).  Don't listen to the critics.
Too much gun?  Heck, I know a local hunter who likes to take squirrels with his 45-70 (head shots only).
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: johnp034 on September 21, 2010, 12:35:45 AM
Too much gun is never a problem, too little is!  Here in Tennessee, a few years ago, they made it legal to use any centerfire caliber for Whitetails.  In the past it was .24 cal. or larger.  Now every body with a 6 or 7 year old child, owns a Rossi or H&R .223 single shot.  No recoil & also not sufficient for deer hunting.  Lots of wounded deer running around and dying later.  I know, I know, many deer have been killed with the old .22 and rightly so, but in competent hands of skilled marksmen, not novice children.  P.S., there is no age limit in Tennessee, so as soon as the young un's can hold a gun, they are legal.  Yep, a .460 makes a large hole, not quite as big as a 12 gauge slug, but if you shoot em thru the rib cage, it won't mess up too much of the edible parts.  Go for it!
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: Gray Ghost Safaris on October 06, 2010, 02:40:27 PM
The minimum caliber for DG hunting in many African countries is listed as .375 or, some use a foot pounds of energy. However, this is not written law in most countries, rather a guideline. Many have adapted this into hearsay "law" but in reality, it's a good rule. However, your .460 is excellent for Cape Buffalo, especially if you shoot it well. Buffalo are extremely tenacious animals and can adsorb a great amount of shock. Putting one down with the first shot is not the norm, but true, many have been dropped with one shot. It all boils down to shot placement. Having a mental attitude of "I have one, and only one shot" will help you make that first shot count. Don't expect that dugga boy to drop in his tracks. They usually run off in the direction they are facing. Thus many hunters claim on a frontal shot, they were charged, when in fact the buff was only doing his thing: running straight ahead. You don't really want a charge. Too much of that nonsense can get someone killed (and that does happen unfortunately). As for your muzzle brake, just be sure your PH knows about it. If he happens to be standing aside you when you squeeze the trigger, he could suffer permanent hearing loss. Good hunting, David
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: james7mmwby on October 06, 2010, 03:08:39 PM
No such thing as long as you can shoot it accurately and comfortably. I have seen many videos when the PH, trackers etc all have fingers in their ears when the client is shooting, a 223 or a 460 will damage ears if your in the wrong position. I am sure most PH's are mindful of their hearing. There are bigger guns than 460's out there, 577 T-rex, 600 NE and 700 NE and some others I'm sure. People love to nock what they don't have or understand. I don't think any Safari outfitter is going to turn down your $. good shooting

James
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: johnp034 on October 06, 2010, 08:08:48 PM
"It may not actually be needed for shooting large and dangerous game, but it is a handy thing to have around for STOPPING large and dangerous game."

Taken from Hodgdon's 26 Edition, 1992

Awesome cartridge, totally awesome!
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: DocHolladay on October 08, 2010, 08:36:27 PM
Never been to Africa, but like everyone else, you cant have to much gun!!!



johnp034,

The statement you made below is partially true, IMO. There are lots of wounded deer running around and dying later from .223's. Its not the caliber, its the bullet choice that is causing it. The majority of people that buy ammo for their kids, wives or themselves in .223 tend to get the cheapest ammo they can find or what is on the shelf, which usually happens to be varmint ammo. I keep a few boxes of "the good stuff" on the shelf for people that tend to use it for deer. The last stuff I bought was CorBon DPX in 53gr. It is high dollar, but it has the penetration and slow expansion that is need to kill deer sized game. I make sure and educate everyone that comes in the store and buys a .223 rifle for a small stature person to make sure they understand what ammo they need for deer. Whether they listen of not is up to them. I know that I have done my part to educate and provide them with the knowledge needed to help their beginning hunter have a successful hunt.

 
Quote
Now every body with a 6 or 7 year old child, owns a Rossi or H&R .223 single shot.  No recoil & also not sufficient for deer hunting.  Lots of wounded deer running around and dying later.
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: klong67 on October 09, 2010, 10:29:13 AM
Like everyone here already said....No such this as too much! The best performance I ever had or have seen was when I shot a small Whitetail with my 375 H&H! Less meat loss than a 270 Win and an instant kill!! The main thing is that you have to be able to shoot it well! There is only one kind of dead, but many kinds of wounded!

Ken
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: gus2622 on October 09, 2010, 11:12:47 AM
Hi guys I go with John P. and also,the right bullet and placement.
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: BigBronz215 on January 01, 2011, 05:09:55 PM
i dont really worry about the kick of the gun because that just hunting
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: Thomas on January 01, 2011, 06:47:05 PM
Sorry to hear all the bad talk about one fabulous rifle. Don't listen to the jerks that all they do is put down a rifle or caliber for reason they have probably only heard, and never expierenced themselves. They are simply resounding the negative press they either read in a magazine or saw on some dumb TV program.
There is an old PH saying, "It is better to be over gunned all the time, than under gunned anytime!"
If you can hit what you want and where you want to hit it, then use the 460 and tell the other idiots to go play with themselves, and stop jerking you around. your 460 has no cause to drop its head for any reason or any body. >:(
Roll Tide
Tom
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: Chip on January 02, 2011, 08:09:50 AM
If it takes a four man crew to shoot it it might be too much gun other than that your good.
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: Captain Finlander on January 02, 2011, 08:32:58 AM
Have you all seen the video's of the newbies shooting the 577 T-Rex on you-tube.  Hilarious!  :D

But not too much gun when the chips are down.  People still die hunting in Africa every year. 

If you want to put things in perspective try this on.  The 223 is considered to small for deer but it offers 1000 foot lbs  of energy at 100 yards for a 150 to 200 class animal.   

The 375 H&H magnum shooting an elephant at 100 yards generates approximately 3300 foot lbs of energy for a 10,000 pound animal.  The 375 only offers  3x more power but the animal is 50 times bigger. 

So in theory only, you could use a 50 BMG on elephants and still be equivalent to the 223 on deer.   

So of course I left out allot of variables but which is more ethical?
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: Chip on January 02, 2011, 08:46:56 AM
Well since the elephant is a brain shot proposition and a deer is likely to get shot anywhere that some joker can hit it.  I'd say the 223 is less ethical.  Plus wounded deer will rarely pick you up with their trunk and use you to mop the floor with before stompnig you into some form of jelly.   
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: zonie on January 02, 2011, 10:56:07 AM
I have to agree with Gary and Gray Ghost.  The only thing I would worry about is getting 460 ammo in small towns in Africa if you or the airline lose it.  Just pack a few boxes in different bags.  So long as you like it and shoot it well who are we or anyone else to say it's too much.  I guarantee you the first time you see an Elephant or Dugga boy (Cape Buff)  up close there isn't a gun big enoug to make me comfortable.  Other than cost that's why I stick with plains game.  Although next time over Cape Buff will be on the menu it's the only big five that interests me, and I have a 458 already set aside for that day.   Ron 
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: Marishka on January 05, 2011, 04:44:42 PM
The .460 is not only a great gun but historical as well. Like my bretherin have posted, ignore the "too-much-gun" pundits and go with your .460. Since you shoot it well you should embrace and enjoy it. But, wherever you go with it, do be certain to have sufficient sources of your desired ammo.
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: 340shooter on January 05, 2011, 07:28:02 PM
Remind those gentlemen saying its it to much gun that your PH will probably be carrying the larger .505 or 500 Nitro.
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: mauser on January 30, 2011, 04:56:32 PM
Gun size is correctly measured in flip-factor and should supply enough kenetic energy to cause SDS, (sudden death syndrome).
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: HuskyMusky on January 31, 2011, 10:29:22 PM
The big bores I plan to own are the .375H&H, .416 Rigby, .458 Lott. (id pick one of these 3 and never look back,decide which bore you want and pick one of these 3, case closed)  and I'd want it with a controlled feed action, ie model 70, mauser 98 claw style, winchester, ruger, cz, etc...


If you really wanted a weatherby big bore I'd get the .416 wby.. oh and I'd never own another rifle with a muzzle brake, so I'd skip the .416wby and one of the ones above I mentioned.
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: Gray Ghost Safaris on May 27, 2011, 12:02:58 PM
Your .460 is fine for Buffalo. As far as using it, just advise your PH. Shouldn't be a problem using the muzzle brake. Most PHs just don't want to be beside or in front of the muzzle as it can cause permanant hearing loss. They can remain at your side, just slightly behind you. Shot placement and bullet construction are the main concerns when hunting dangerous game. If your comfortable with your .460, by all means take it.
Good hunting!
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: BillMac3 on May 29, 2011, 10:05:13 AM
If it's to much gun for Africa where else are
you going to able to use it? Mars? So don't listen to
them  critics I say if you can shoot it take it.
Good luck.
Regards
Bill
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: grizzly340 on November 03, 2011, 08:49:48 AM
I like Billys Anser. It was built to be the Baddest Stopper on the planet. And you said the majic words YOU Like it and YOU shoot it well. Nothing else matters.Thats what the PH is going to ask you and he is going to be looking to see how well you handle it when he watches you sight in. And they All say Americans cant shoot. So make us Proud
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: idahogrose on November 03, 2011, 11:27:21 AM
Are you only going for buffs?  If you are going to go after plains game too, make sure you take something smaller-deer/elk type calibers=less meat ruined. 

.460 is a great cartridge, even better if you can shoot it well

4 words

TAKE ME WITH YOU!!!

IG
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: martinlamprecht on November 13, 2011, 04:40:45 AM
you stating that you want to come to africa on a safari, but you do not say what game you want to hunt(besides one day you want to shoot a cape buff). your .460 is good for bad ass animals like buff, but hunting plains game calls for something less. i use a .300wby mag and i find it very suitable for everything i hunt here
bring your .460 if yr comfortable with it but do not expect to be taking long shots as our bush is thick. 100mts or so is about the range you will hunt
enjoy your stay and above all, enjoy your hunt
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: eaglesnester on April 16, 2012, 08:57:39 AM
there ante no such thing as too much gun when hunting dangerous CPX4 game. Enough said.  I live in northern British Columbia Canada and a lot of folks think a 375H&H is too much gun for up here.  I feel safe  in the bush when I carry the old ouch&ouch, and you will too when you carry the 460 in Africa
Title: Re: too much gun?
Post by: Timothy on April 18, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
I agree is what ya like & can hit well with i am using my 300 WBY Magnum here in Va & the the shots are 95% under 100 yrds. I get thats too much gun quite often but i showed one friend just how handy a MAGNUM rifle can be we were hunting up above my home & we were walking & i seen a BIG doe & i took the shot & when we went to gut her i found out that i had shot clean through a 16" dia tree & still killed the Doe dead I Love my 300 Weatherby Nagnum