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Messages - zonie

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Duby  I totally understand why people would loc-tite ring screws.  I think for me it's a carry over from a long time ago when we were using slotted screws and some made in China soft screws,  Today we have much better hardened allen head and torx head screws and if I had a preference it would be torx head.  Just from habit I triple check  base and ring screws for tightness.  I'll let the screws sit for a few minutes and check until all screws are tight.  Old school guy's sometimes rapped the screws heads at the last bit of tightening with a small hammer to set the threads,  I don't do that anymore.  Scope bases if they don't fit it's wrong,  I try not to shim bases to me it looks bad and there are other ways to correct the problem with a little  time and elbow grease.  Without seeing the rifle first hand several things are possible causes,  I've even seen base screws crack ,  high recoiling caliber and slightly off bases causing too much stress on base screws.   

It's easy enough to tell if the rings or bases are in-line with each other which in turn would tell you if the bases were possibly not sitting flush or out of alignment.  1" or 30 MM  dowel or scope alignment tool is really all that's needed.   I get a little anal when mounting scopes I much prefer scopes with a lot of bell to bell length for a couple reasons,  I don't like scope rings anywhere near the scopes turret if I can help it,  unfortunately the last few years some scopes are getting shorter and shorter and  mounting distances which crowd the turrets.  In these cases I will almost always try to see if extension rings or bases will solve the problem or not.    Scopes can bend with enough torque.  The second reason I prefer longer mounting distances is because it's generally stronger when the ring spacing is spread apart more than choked down with a shorter mounting distance, this is especially true with big heavy scopes which place more pressure on mounts & screws.  In any case if the bases and rings are in line and flush I'd bet it's the scope and I would send it back, but keep what I stated above in the back of your mind when mounting scopes,  strong is good.   Realistically and I don't torque I go by feel,  it doesn't take a whole lot of pressure on the scope ring screw to hold that scope and I don't loc-tite ring screws,   ring bases are a different story I try to make sure they are tight and I do loc-tite bases with non permanent blue just make sure those are the bases you want to keep on the rifle for a long time.  I'm thinking out loud on some rifles I may start installing picatinny one piece base 0 or 20 moa base,  these weaver rails or picatinny base give you a lot more mounting location to spread out the rings or choke them in if needed.  Just a thought.  I just bought a new 30mm Sightron S-TAC 4x20x50mm side focus,  I probably won't mount it until the first of the year. 

The 257 wby will surely kill the biggest bulls if hit right,  I've used it before using a Nosler 110 gr accubond, and while not my favorite on elk in the right hands and good shot placement it will get the job done @ some fairly longer ranges,   a good friend took a very nice 385 bull with a 257 wby @ 400 yds using a Barnes 100 grain ttsx and the bullet blew right thru and exited lung shot.  I seen Indians down on the Apache res carrying sks's on elk hunts it wouldn't be my favorite but they use what they own.  This last week my son went with friends down the road and they got 2 bulls @ 496 yds 7mm stw.  Other friends I just talked to today got  5x6 and 6x6 @ 60 yds with 300 ultra mag.  None of them use Bergers. These guy's either guide, own mules, or hard core elk hunters as most of our friends are.   I tracked a rag horn  bull one time  I shot right at dusk the evening before solid hit 270 win 150 grain Nosler Partition ,maybe 60 yds facing me head on.  The bull had been in a wallow and the dried mud and small pea gravel and cinders were  caked on the front of his chest , when I hit him dead center all I seen was the mud flying and a sharp whack from the bullet impact,   we were out pretty much  all night tracking that elk with flashlights,  I found him about 7 am the next morning laying up under a tree still quite alive but not wanting to stand up , so I finished him off with  neck shot.  That partition came completely apart from the caked on mud /gravel.  Years before I was playing with lesser constructed cup and core bullets and had some rather disappointing results at close  range elk 50 /60 yds,  perfect shot  completely knocked the elk off it's  feet ,  then it got up faster than you can believe, and off to the races we went 800 ft elevation drop  down a canyon the last 40 ft was vertical,  and it took 2000 ft of 3/16 th's stainless cable and snatch blocks to get to the elk,    luckily we had 5 - 1000 ft rolls of cable in the trucks we could if needed clamp together  because we knew the area .   So my idea is to drop an elk as fast as you can especially when you are in a rough mtn /canyon area.  Seems like every year I tell these guy's shoot them till they drop then one of us still gets a phone call ,  can you guy's come help !  That's why I carry 2 pack frames in the Bronco along with other equipment.  I told my kids a long time ago ( they are all adults now )  you shoot that elk down in that deep canyon it better be a 400 class bull because the fun just stopped.   My wife broke her ankle a year ago this Nov helping pack my son's bull elk out, after recent surgery it will be another year before she will hopefully be up and running so we will most likely modify our hunting strategy and try to shoot elk closer to easier access.       

I've found the Bergers tend to be accurate with good load work-up.   For deer size and smaller thin skinned game I don't have a problem with Bergers or some of the other thin jacketed non bonded cup and core bullets, and while if hit center mass heart/lung area any of these can make spectacular one shot kills even on larger animals,  BUT and this is a big BUT,  a bad  hit especially a large animal any of these bullets can and do come apart,  that's what Bergers are made to do come apart.  If that's what you need then it's a good thing,  if that's what you don't need that's a bad thing.  I flat won't use them on elk or larger I want a bullet to drive deep braking everything in it's path.  A point could be made given enough bullet weight any bullet can work just  look at pure lead muzzle loader bullets they can drive deep and do a lot of damage, same could be said using a 300 /350 grain thinner jacketed pure lead core bullet in a 458 win mag it will definitely drop any elk at closer ranges that's just the nature of this type of bullet,  big, heavy weight  and ballistically challenged.  Small dia,  lightweight,  super velocity,  cup and core bullets tends to stress bullet design,  that's just a plain fact.  The biggest problem is there is no perfect bullet for all circumstances and conditions.  The good thing is bullets today are many brands /  better designed and construction.  This may sound a little weird I shoot many different calibers and for the most part  ( there are exceptions ) I tend to choose a hunting bullet regardless of caliber for the heaviest / toughest  game animal that I will use that rifle on,  i.e. 270 win loaded with 150 grainers I will use for elk and deer.  300 wby 180 grain frontier Spartans for deer/ elk / African plains game.  Of course there are other calibers we hunt with and the same goes for each.  Varmit rifles and match rifles are a different subject. 

Around the Campfire (General Discussion) / Re: Commute to work
« on: December 10, 2017, 08:15:15 AM »
Nice !

Around the Campfire (General Discussion) / Re: 6.5 creedmoor
« on: December 05, 2017, 12:42:52 AM »
Without showing any pressure in an S2 Vanguard  I can get a little over 3000 fps with a Hornady 129 gr interlock and a 140 gr interlock @ 2850 fps  &  RL17 powder & quick load program.   I could probably go hotter , but have since backed off the loads to 2950 & 2800 fps respectfully.  I do have a small ring Swedish Mauser  96 in 6.5x55  wonderful cartridge.  I know from a gunsmith friend and you were to use a 98 action you can push a 6.5x55 Ackley improved right on the  velocity heels of the 6.5x284.  The small ring 96 as well as it is build I wouldn't try hot rodding it too much they are just not as strong as the 98's.       

Thanks,   I love that whole area,  my wife has a few points for deer.  I know she would love to go back up to the Kaibab 12 a/e, 12b  & strip units.  We've hunted several time's in 12ae and 12aw always the early hunts ,  never  drawn for the late hunts.  Been in there on the Plateau when the snow was so bad guy's were leaving their lesser 4x4 rigs  & trailers couldn't get out.  Weather has been changing the last few years much dryer.  One year the old jeep broke down had to limp across the AZ / Utah border into Kanab Utah and buy a carb rebuild kit we were hunting does when the kids were young in 12aw.   

Beautiful deer !   what  unit ?     It's like me I have 24 points for AZ Antelope,  some years  I also  buy the points only.  We are getting some very nice deer in AZ  unit 3a/3c the last few years after the re-growth from the Rodeo/Chedski fire in 2002, the area is not that far from our house.   G&F is trying to get more elk out of there and turn it into a more buck to doe ratio hunt units.  Yesterday the guys took 2 smaller bulls,   one spike and one 5 by in the cedars ,  ridge to ridge shot was 496 yds on both elk, 7mm mags.  My son said he saw a couple very large muleys ,  I may very well start putting in for 3a/3c for muleys  my wife has been wanting a big muley to hang on the wall.   Anyway congratulations on a very nice deer. 

Around the Campfire (General Discussion) / Re: My military career
« on: December 04, 2017, 09:06:44 AM »
Congratulations to the end of your service career and a new beginning with another career.  Pretty cool. 

Around the Campfire (General Discussion) / Re: Grayboe stocks
« on: November 30, 2017, 09:46:04 AM »
Phone call to staff @ McMillan fiberglass just a little trivia.  Ryan McMillan and Grayboe branched out from McMillan stocks.  The little reading I have been doing is grayboe is a proprietary molded stock.  McMillan  stocks are suppose to be coming out in 2017 with an injection molded stock called Mccube.  I haven't seen any yet.   They have a little you tube on McMillian website talking about the Mccube stocks.

Around the Campfire (General Discussion) / Re: 6.5 creedmoor
« on: November 28, 2017, 07:30:52 PM »
Yea I know long posts.   

Around the Campfire (General Discussion) / Re: Grayboe stocks
« on: November 27, 2017, 06:05:11 PM »
Grayboe from my understanding is part of McMillan at a less expensive price.  My guess is they ought to be pretty good.    Red hawk rifles is now carrying them and dropped Bell & Carlson due to quality control.  One of these days I ought to drive down to the factory and see what info I can get.  I really don't know why they only list rem 700 action types other than it's probably the most popular to modify and has the most accessory parts available.   Maybe long term they will add different rifle makers who knows ?

Around the Campfire (General Discussion) / Re: 6mm Creedmore
« on: November 27, 2017, 05:54:50 PM »
I guess it's another long range precision cartridge based on a necked down 6.5 creedmoor .  Just from what I've read Ruger is using a 1 :7.7  twist to stabilize the longer 108 plus grain bullets which makes sense for punching paper at longer ranges.  Probably be a fine deer cartridge we will have to wait and see how many other rifle makers will follow suit or if they decide to add normal hunting rifles in the mix. 

Around the Campfire (General Discussion) / Re: 6.5 creedmoor
« on: November 27, 2017, 05:00:02 PM »
We have been close many many times almost trampled by an elk herd one year when my son was 11 years old, on his first hunt at Sipe wildlife area in an old hay field we sneaked in before daylight using a very small creek bank then I saw the image of a cow elk above us and told my son as soon as it get's light we are going to climb up the little rise and see if you can get a shot,  little did I know there were other hunters on the other side of the field and when we crested the slight elevation the field was on,  shots rang out not from us,  the elk saw us and didn't know what to do and then ran in circles around us,  the ground shook, I'll bet there were 200 or so elk in that field , bulls , cows, calfs it was an interesting morning.   I literally drove my buddy in the middle of a small elk herd kind of by accident  in New Mexico on a muzzle loader hunt and of course one shot he missed the whole 25 animals , couldn't believe it.   Been chased and mock charged by black bear,  cornered a mtn lion  by mistake in an abandoned cowboy line shack he could have swatted me so fast you couldn't believe,  the hair on the back of my neck was standing and didn't have a gun on me I left it in the truck, my buddy said get the gun from the truck and go get him,   I told him you want him you go in there,  we tossed rocks at him and finally gave up to go scout for elk. That was one pissed off kitty.  Called in mtn Lions and bears with an old wooden  lohman mouth call.  While turkey calling a pack of wolves howling back they saw us.  While elk hunting one wolf eyeballing my wifes elk in the back of the truck she shot earlier in the evening and that wolf howled all night in camp keeping my wife up which in turn kept me up.  I've had vermin try to get in my lap when varmit calling,  Turkey calling we sometimes get deer and elk to come rather close to see what all that racket is,  you can smell an elk before they get on you.  More than once I've had bear following me,  finding steaming bear crap in my foot steps on the way back out.  Had my neighbors  leather jacket ripped up  on his body from a mtn lion because he got too close with the dogs. They don't like shooting female mtn lions bad for business.  Had a frekin 2000 pound male buffalo with his cows  tear down a fence to get to me because I got stupid with him.  That one kind of scared me.  3 times in one year the family had bear encounters once with my wife , daughter and I out elk hunting,  once when my daughter, friend and I were out scouting for elk  a bear  in the bottom of the little canyon chased my daughter up a little hill to where we were,  and once when my son while archery turkey hunting thought he heard a  bull elk tearing up a tree and found out it was an angry 400 pound male black bear that didn't give his ground and came after him and then stopped, my son had one arrow left,  he now carries a hot loaded 45 acp  or long colt in the field even when bow hunting. Had one of the neighbors horses out in her field along with ours and bull elk stuck her mare in the neck with his antler had to call the vet and stich her up.   You are right eyeball to eyeball can get at little interesting.     

Around the Campfire (General Discussion) / Re: Return of the 284 Win
« on: November 27, 2017, 11:08:37 AM »
I wouldn't be too terribly worried about ammo or brass,  a few of the bigger companies will only make one run a year on older or doesn't sell well brass .  Eventually it will turn up someplace  and then stock up considering you re-load or have someone else re-load for it.  I passed this year on a kind of a well worn Savage 99 in 284 price was good I just thought the rifle was a little too worn for my liking. 

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