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Topics - danno50

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This move to Wyoming, like any move cross country, has disrupted the easy flow of business that we're all use to, and won't get better till the move is complete, everything unboxed, opened, and put in its final resting place. Theres no temporary fit-it shop set up to handle rifle problems, not even warranty work, so there will probably be a whole lot more complaining from new Weatherby owners then we've seen in the past. New customers will have to understand that this disrupted transition time is not the "business as usual" that Weatherby routinely provides, and not the time to judge Weatherby as a company, at least until they can get set up again to handle problems. Anyone who has been a Nation member, even for a few years, is use to hearing about Weatherby's exemplary customer service, not just in repairs, but information, parts, and the willingness of Adam and Ed Weatherby to join in on our Nation conversations just being friendly or to defuse particular problems. You won't find another company where the CEO fraternizes, rubs elbows, whatever you want to call it, with the forum members and makes you feel your a part of the family. Its like having a friend on the inside, and it means a lot to us. We know that Weatherby rifles can be expensive and that when something goes wrong with a new purchase, its frustrating and we want it fixed. At this time, sorry to say, not all warranty or non warranty rifle problems can be handled in a timely manor, so an extra amount of patience may be the norm for now. These real rifle problems are not being ignored, but without a work space and the proper tools nothing can be accomplished until things are set up at the new location. This must be a frustrating time for Weatherby operations and we'll all be glad when the move is complete and things get back to normal. Anyway, this is how I see things going right now. JMO

I thought this was an interesting bit of history for deer hunters. We know some of this, and the read is a bit long, but interesting.(I printed this part because the link was longer)

Medieval Meat
During the Medieval Period in western Europe, venison took on a very special importance in society. Under the rule of the Norman Kings, a Forest Law was established allowing the King to designate any area as Royal Forest with strict laws against the killing or collection of deer or vegetation. Laws also prohibited venison from being sold. Venison represented a special commodity that only the rich and influential had access to. Because of this, venison was much more than protein, it was an obvious symbol of the ruling elite. It became a way for those important enough to have venison to show others they respected them enough to present such a special gift.
The gift of venison might come in the form of an invite to hunt, or several quarters delivered to an estate, an invitation to a celebratory feast, or even live captured deer in wooden crates to be released elsewhere. As a good illustration of the value and prestige of venison, there are written records of guests complaining that other meat (pork and beef) were being passed off as venison to the guests (who knew the difference and were not imressed). Beef and pork could be purchased anywhere, but venison was special. Although today we celebrate the leanness of venison and lack of fatty marbling, in Medieval times fat was desired and relished. Deer were hunted specifically during times of peak fat which they referred to as being “in grease.” Males were hunted in the month prior to rut before they “ran off ” their fat reserves, and females were mostly hunted in late fall after having a chance to be fatted up.
Because of the high value of venison, it became a way to show social leadership and to strengthen social connections in the community. If you were important enough to be given venison then you were known and respected by someone important. As politics became a more important part of Medieval society, the records show that gifts of venison became more common around political election time! According to John Fletcher, in his book “Gardens of Earthly Delight,” the Duke of Norfolk gave away 75 deer in the year 1515; with most going to 16 knights, 5 priors, 5 lords, and other local dignitary.
Although people of that era were commercializing everything, they did not dare extend that to deer meat. Having venison available to all in the open market would have devalued this important social symbol of wealth and power among the elite. Another reason for not allowing the sale of venison is that making it profitable would certainly encourage poaching. Poaching was already well documented in more than just the familiar tale of “Robin Hood.” He was taking from the rich and giving to the poor, but he wasn’t shooting bags of coins with that bow.
Ample court records show that the peasants did not have the same aversion to selling venison; they were always scraping to get by and additional venison in the stew pot or money from poached deer was a welcomed addition. If caught by the forest officer, poachers sometimes were successful in bribery by simply splitting the deer with him. Because venison was such a special treat there was reportedly an increase in poaching immediately before major feasts or holidays like Christmas.
To the modern taste buds, deer fat is not desirable because it has a higher melting point and can feel “pasty” in the mouth when it reaches room temperature. If washed down with a cold drink, it might feel decidedly waxy. There were no freezers or meat lockers in those days and so venison was usually salted and sometimes smoked
before being packed in barrels for storage or transportation. The natural leanness of venison helped keep the meat from becoming rancid. recipes of the day frequently called for a vinegar marinade, which may have been more for disinfecting the meat under Medieval conditions than it was to flavor or tenderize it. Interestingly, many of the present-day sour meat dishes in European cooking (like sauerbraten) may originate from the fact that Medieval kitchens used a lot of vinegar.
Throughout later British and European history, venison continued to be an important commodity to gift to others or flaunt apparent wealth. The upper class who had access to deer continued to invite friends of favor to come hunt or partake in a feast that included venison as its centerpiece. Meanwhile, in North America, Native American tribes revered venison in much the same way by sharing and gifting this valuable commodity among their community. Those with venison were skilled enough to obtain it and those on the receiving end of a gift were honored. To this day, many tribes favor venison over beef because they know it is healthier, harder to obtain, and holds special cultural meanings. A friend who is Navajo sometimes donates venison to members of certain Pueblo Tribes. His gifts are immediately met with insistent return gifts of Pueblo bread, tamales, burritos or fresh corn. The value of venison and the practice of bartering has deep cultural roots going back father than we can document.

I've never heard of the Tenderstretch method of hanging a deer for cleaning and aging. Having never tried it, I wonder if it really makes a difference at all. I've never been in a steakhouse meat locker, but I do remember seeing beef hanging in a movie. Any butchers out there?


Around the Campfire (General Discussion) / New World Record @1000 yards
« on: August 06, 2018, 07:33:34 PM »
Any current or former 1000 yard Benchrest shooters here on the Nation? What rifle and caliber were used, or built to compete? (if any) New World Record below:


Handguns / Sunday handgun Videos
« on: July 15, 2018, 09:09:15 AM »
 When hunting large game or dangerous game you need a handgun thats up to the task, but some handguns are way over the top. Heres an entertaining 10 minute video that gives a choice, but which ones would you choose to hunt with?  :)

Other Big Game / Amazing Trophy Room/Gun Collection/and Money+
« on: June 18, 2018, 08:17:45 AM »
 Ken Barr is the CEO of Adobe Creek Packing co. located in Ca. They grow and pack pears for sale to companies like WalMart and other large chain stores. Annual sales are $50-$100 Million a year. Adobe Creek Packing is a privately held corporation. Since they are located in Ca. I guess that is why there are grape vines planted around the building.
The first link is from 2016 Weatherby Award Ceremony.

The second link is the trophy room/gun collection (scroll down on pictures)

Rifles / First Light Weight Bolt Action
« on: May 10, 2018, 09:19:34 AM »
Did you know that Savage made the first light weight sporting rifle, came in at 5lbs-14oz. Heres a little history on this Vintage Model 1920 Savage, with Schnabel forend.
 I found the first link on SavageShooters.com.
 The second link is a GunBroker dangling carrot.


I posted this earlier this morning and left the house. Got home and noticed I posted it in "Reloading" instead of "Campfire".(removing the post from Reloading)

 Over the years Savage has been an icon in the industry, and just seems they've been a success story and a money maker, especially in the latest generation of rifles, the AR. So, why would you sell off a successful firearms mfg like Savage? Completely unexpected right?
The first link is the actual announcement that got me to wondering why. So I started to look.
The second link (took some research time) I found explains the caving in of Vista and the sell off.
AMENDED] Check out the comments after the second link.

 1.) https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/vista-outdoors-putting-savage-arms-stevens-brands-up-for-sale/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=20180504_FridayDigest_172&utm_campaign=/blog/vista-outdoors-putting-savage-arms-stevens-brands-up-for-sale/

2.) https://www.adventure-journal.com/2018/02/vista-boycott-ooutdoor-brands/

Maybe Hornady started something by announcing publicly their position against phony state and government officials that try to overuse their power. Springfield Armory has also taken a stand against the left wing anti-gun lobby. Just the title of the article had me LOL

Archery / New Pope & Young For Pennsylvania
« on: April 24, 2018, 02:11:26 PM »
The previous Pennsylvania P&Y state record was broken, so heres the story and pictures of the buck.

African / Harry Selby, Premier African Hunter Dies at age 92
« on: April 21, 2018, 06:48:15 PM »
Harry Selby was among some of the great African hunters that was lucky to experience Africa during the "Golden Age" of hunting. He was one of the pioneers who helped forge the African Safari experience, along with Capstick, Ruark, Teddy Roosevelt, and others who helped fill the imaginations of many a young man with their exploits and writings. I'm sure the Nation members who have had the opportunity to hunt Africa will never forget the experience and were probably influenced by the romanticized adventures of some of these men. Selby and the others hunted in the Golden age of what was called, The Dark Continent because of it's mystery and savagery. Here's a short tribute.

Other Big Game / The Effects of Hog Hunting on Wild Pig Behavior
« on: April 13, 2018, 07:12:02 AM »
The following is the latest information from the Texas A&M Newsletter Spring 2018 feral hog studies.
Unfortunately I was unable to transfer it as a link of any kind, and had to copy it best I could.
For anyone who hunts hogs, its well worth the read.

Hunting Can Accelerate Wild Pig Birth Rates
It is generally accepted that sport hunting wild pigs will
not significantly reduce populations. Perhaps less
apparent is that human activities such as hunting can
induce evolutionary ramifications at both the population
and species level (Darimont et al. 2009). A good
example of this has been observed in deer species
(Odocoileus sp.); whereas high rates of trophy harvest
were shown to lead to smaller overall horn size and body
mass over time (Coltman et al. 2003). In wild pig
populations, though, high hunting pressure doesn’t
necessarily lead to reduced body sizes or smaller tusks.
Extensive monitoring of wild pig populations over 22
years found that high hunting pressure can actually cause
wild pigs to advance offspring birth rates by as much as
12 days per gestation cycle (Gamelon et al. 2011). This
acceleration in birth rate is further compounded by
increased conception rates of sows within their first year
of life when populations experience increased adult
mortality from hunting or other abatement efforts
(Gamelon et al. 2011). Essentially, wild pigs may breed
earlier and produce offspring more quickly when
subjected to hunting pressure. Given this novel survival
strategy, it becomes more understandable why a state like
Missouri banned completely the sport hunting of wild
pigs on conservation lands.
Instead of flushing, some wild pigs have adapted to evade helicopters
by holding within dense cover.
Wild Pig Adaptations to Aerial Gunning
Aerial gunning is an effective population reduction
strategy unless limited by topography or dense canopy
cover (Campbell et al. 2010). However, previous research
has shown that wild pigs can intelligently adapt their
behavior to avoid detection and flushing by helicopters
(Saunders and Bryant 1988). It might be assumed that
these animals would simply disperse from their home
range in response to aerial gunning efforts. In fact,
research indicated the opposite in that core area and home
range sizes did not alter either before or after enacting
aerial control (Campbell et al. 2010). Instead, wild pigs
can adapt to aerial gunning by seeking dense cover and
refusing to flush from it despite concerted efforts by the
pilot and crew.
Research indicated that wild pig sows subjected to high hunting
pressure had higher conception rates in their first year and
produced offspring up to 12 days sooner than normal gestation.
What is significant about this behavior is that until
relatively recently wild pig populations had not
encountered significant predation from above their line of
sight. Despite this, they have quickly adapted to be
capable of intelligently evading a formidable 5000 pound
“aerial predator” that otherwise would seem to have every
advantage. The intelligence and adaptability of wild pigs
are key factors that compound effective control (Sweeney
et al. 2003), and this is again evidenced by their potential
to learn to evade aerial gunning efforts.
Trap Aversion
Research has long documented trapping as an effective
population reduction technique, with 70-80% reductions in
populations having been reported using this technique
alone (Saunders et al. 1990, Vernes et al. 1999). However

wild pigs can adapt to avoid traps altogether for a variety
of reasons. This can occur due to the size and type of
trap used, but also can be attributed to inadvertently
“educating” wild pigs through incomplete captures. With
the exception of solitary adult males (boars), wild pigs
travel in social groups called sounders. When trapping
these animals, it is important to target and remove the
entire sounder in a single trapping effort. This is
generally accomplished through a process of pre-baiting
and conditioning the group over time to routinely enter a
trap large enough to contain the entire sounder. Corral
style traps are often best suited for this, and research
indicated this type of trap to be four times more effective
than conventional box traps (Williams et al. 2010). Box
traps, while valued for their portability, usually
only capture 1-3 animals at a time. No matter what type
of trap is used, incomplete captures can divide sounders
and cause remaining pigs to avoid traps in the future.
Wild pigs will attempt to escape traps if given the opportunity. Ensure
that traps are constructed properly and check traps at first light to
help minimize trap escape attempts. (Image Credit: Andy James)
In order to minimize learned trap aversion due to incomplete
captures, the goal of any trapping effort should be to target and
remove the entire sounder of wild pigs.
Trap Escape
Wild pigs can also adapt to escape traps, and individuals
that learn to do so often exhibit this behavior repeatedly.
Trap escapes can be accomplished through climbing,
rooting, exploiting trap design flaws and even jumping
considerable heights in excess of 4 feet. It is important
to construct and implement sound trap designs, and it is
equally important to check traps as soon as possible
following each trap night. Many experienced trappers
check their traps at first light and bring a firearm in order
to harvest any residual pigs that may be near the trap site
due to incomplete capture or escape. The Texas A&M
Natural Resources Institute recommends that corral traps
be constructed with four to six 16’ cattle panels that have
5’ panel height and 4” mesh in order to minimize trap
escapes. It is generally not necessary to bury or trench
paneling underground, but it is important not to leave any
gaps at ground level or near the head gate. Game cameras
can be integral in monitoring wild pig activity at traps
sites, and can also help to identify any modifications
necessary in order to minimize the potential for trap
Wild pigs exhibit a variety of behavioral responses to
abatement pressure. Their intelligence and adaptability can
complicate effective control, factors that are only
compounded by their extreme fecundity. It is important to
select appropriate strategies as well as to adapt control
techniques as necessary in order to minimize any potential
issues which can reduce the success of abatement efforts.
This can undoubtedly be easier said than done, as is
evidenced by the numerous and often remarkable ways in
which wild pigs can evade control efforts despite the best
technologies available to man. However, best management
practices including trapping, aerial gunning, strategic
shooting, snaring, and the use of trained dogs remain
proven tools that, when implemented in a combined
approach, can successfully abate the damages associated
with wild pigs.

Rifles / Weatherby Calibers
« on: April 11, 2018, 06:05:30 PM »
Its been approx. 73 years since Roy Weatherby designed the first of his great calibers. It took all of the money he could scrape together, a lot of outside the box thinking, and countless hours were invested to try and prove his theory that velocity conveyed hydrostatic shock. All with the basic tooling of the day. If he had been content to be a rifle maker and never invented these calibers, how long do you suppose before someone else would have developed them? Was his case, bolt, and rifle design radical enough that it would have been 10, 20, or more years (from 1945) before these calibers may have been developed? Just hypothetical. Anyone's thoughts?                                               

Whitetail Deer / Processing your own deer
« on: April 08, 2018, 07:01:11 AM »
I came across a Realtree hunting article that I thought might benefit young hunters, first time hunters, and might even serve as a refresher for the rest of us. Its basically a DIY guide to field dressing, skinning, quartering, and even a few cooking tips. It includes videos which serve as a good visual for first timers. How many of us have taken young kids to the hunting camp for their first time hunting experience? When the processing starts the first thing out of their mouths is "Gross" and some are squeamish. Exposing them through these videos may help lessen the Shock of seeing blood and guts for the first time.  My granddaughter was pretty upset her first time. If you think theres a better way of doing any of these things, you can let the kids know at the time how you do it.


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