Spike Camp

African Big Game and the 378

African Big Game and the 378
« on: July 18, 2008, 11:18:43 PM »
Can anyone give me their experiences on BIG Game ,Buffalo ,Elephant etc ,with the 378 ? and which projectiles soft and solids for these game ,their is endless waffle about the the 375 H and H as being the be all and end all, as the best all round African round which i think is BS ,when the 378 is far superior to it ! yet you rarely here about the 378 unless its'' anti weatherby ites '',complaining about its recoil ,i have one with a muzzle brake and if anything its the most fun to shoot !!!!!!!!! gun i have ever had

Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2008, 04:05:20 AM »
The .378 would make an outstanding "one gun"safari. Unless you are hunting elephant, I would not plan on using solids. The last thing you want to do when hunting Buffalo is to have a pass through into another Buffalo or two. Of course, never never never use solids when hunting the cats. These days, premium soft points are so well made that you can get by very nicely with Barnes, Swift A-Franes, Trophy Bonded, etc.... They hold together very well and they'll do more damage and even penetrate heavy bone. I don't own a .378, so I can't offer first hand experience using that rifle on game.  The statement that the .375H&H is the "end all be all" round for Africa along with touting the .30-06 as the best big game cartridge for North America is a bunch of bull.  It's an outdated and archaic statement.  Go back enough years and you'll find people who thought the .30-40 Krag was the gift to hunters.
Jerry

************************************************************************************************************************************
All Weatherby, All the Time

Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2008, 05:06:08 PM »
Interesting observation indeed,   :o wonder how the old boys got away with killing so much with such out dated cartridges for almost a 100yrs using the 30-06 and the 375H&H   ???  Well, I will get a chance to see if the out dated 30-06 on plains game and the .375Wby on the big stuff can get the job done.  Sure hope I don't get over there on my return trip and find out I should have brought a one gun safari cartridge like the 378!!!!  Tell you what, when it happens unless I die before I get to go or the Lord comes first, I will let you know.  Oh, by the way, wonder how Page, Swank, Whelen, Waters did using the 30-06 and some of these men carried it and used it on big game in North America and Africa.  Let's consider Hosea Sarber as an example, a Alaskan guide and warden, whom Jack O'Connor once said had killed more grizzlies than (Jack O'Connor)  had ever seen, relied on a 172gr bullet at between 2,700 and 2,800fps.  Also, there was Wendell Swank, a man who carried a 30-06 around East Africa collecting game specimen simply because it was the rifle most familiar to him.  Oh, Swank did real good, taking the smaller animals with 150gr Sierra.  But what was amazing was Dr. George Petrides who took just about everything from kob, wart hogs, and hartebeest, to lion, buffalo and hippos at ranges up to nearly 200yds.  Not to mention Andy Russell, Myles Brown, Frank Golata, Alf Madsen, Jay Williams, Bill Rae and Bill Ruger are other men who have taken the 30-06 to Africa. If it worked in Africa and in North America on big dangerous game then I am sure it will now considering the new improved bullets and new powders that allow us to drive the bullets at 300H&H levels.  Now I don't have space or time to write about the men who have through the years used the 375H&H on everything that moves and did very well at it.  In closing it was Stewart Edward White who said, "The 30-06 was as effective on lions as the big .405 Winchester."  I tend to believe the testimony and actions of these men who were there and did it, over the opinions of those of us who can only imagine with unexperienced guesses.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 05:27:37 PM by CircuitRider »
Accuracy + Velocity x Mass = DRT

Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2008, 05:58:16 PM »
Thank you for your comments but I did understood the point and I know what extra is that is why I use my 300Wby out west when I go to Arizona and even took my white tail this year in Mississippi with my 300Wby on a long shot.  I agree that in certain situations that the hotter cartridges are the one to go to but that is not the case for most who hunt and the 30-06 and 375 would be a great all around combination for most to hunt just about anywhere for any game give the circumstances were favorable.   

P.S. I will be using my .375Wby this year in Airzona, been practicing with my 300gr TSX load at 2783fps and I am now making 400-500yds shots on my targets.    ;D
« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 06:04:02 PM by CircuitRider »
Accuracy + Velocity x Mass = DRT

Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2008, 04:01:56 AM »
Agreed all around.  My only point I wanted to make is that they (.375H&H, .30-06) are not the "end all-be all", "greatest and best"....whatever adjectives you want to use.  There are indeed better cartridges out there.  The .30-30 is still going strong and still gets the job done.  We all realize this or we wouldn't be on this site  ;D  So, I'm not bashing any cartridge, only descriptions of them that we've all heard.  I also own a .375H&H and have hunted with one too and I still know it's not as effective as the newer cartridges.  Nostalgia weighs in on some of the opinions and that's ok.

Good points Ridgerunner....I dearly love my .340, too!!!

So, to answer Jocko's post, YES, the .378 is the superior cartridge.
Jerry

************************************************************************************************************************************
All Weatherby, All the Time

Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2008, 04:54:21 AM »
As you said JB, "Nostalgia weighs in on some of the opinions and that's ok." That is why I finally decided on the .375Wby and I like it better than I did my 416Wby.  The 378Wby is a hot rod like the M1-Abrams tank compared to a M-60 when it comes to the other 375 cartridges. I am Nostalgic to say the least so that emotion does play in.  375H&H the end all be all?  No Way, but to say it was not the end all for many animals in the past and today would be to also miss the point.  Your point is well made and the debate is truly in favor of the 378Wby because it is a superior cartridge than the 375H&H. 
Accuracy + Velocity x Mass = DRT

Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2008, 08:26:33 PM »
Although I do love the .460, my favorite is the .378.  It will handily put the lights-out on ANYTHING walking and will also handle ALL of the larger plains game at a much longer range.  Having shot .600 Nitros, the big .378 is not bad at all in the recoil department.  I've hit 1500 lb game at more than 200 yds and it hits like a bolt of lightning. But, remember, always use a STOUT bullet.  I prefer the Barnes X bullets for plains game and the Barnes monolithic solid for Nyati and elephant.  Penetration, as should be expected, has to be seen to be believed.  I intend to try out the Woodleigh SPs for the "smaller" plains game.

Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2009, 09:36:13 AM »
I took a long hard look at the Weatherby 378 as a DG weapon of choice.  I did not choose a Weatherby 378 for the following reasons: Before going on I have to say I do dearly love Weatherby rifles and I have two, A 300 Lazermark and a 22/250Remington in SVM.

1. Does not list control round feeding, important when hunting D.G.( Mauser style action)
2. Holds only 2+1 shells, two in magazine box, one in chamber.
3. Shells may be hard to come by, not so much a problem if you are a reloader, but try to buy them if after traveling by air to Bear Crotch B.C. and they lose your bullets. I can tell you from experience you will  NOT FIND THEM ANYWHERE. I can only sometimes find 300 Weatherby in the local sporting goods emporium. (that's why I became a reloader) ;) ;) ;)
4.  Does not have the Ability to load and open the bolt with safety in on position.

The rifle I did choose is the CZ550 375H&H Safari. It has all of the above and is a true DG rifle.  The CZ550 Safari holds 4 in the chamber and 1 in the magazine box, a very good thing, Almost all PH in Africa carry the CZ brand. Now having had my two cents worth, there is no argument that the Weatherby 378 is the hammer of Thor and out classes the 375H&H by a long shot. For my personal choice of D.G. rifle I had to consider all of the factors listed. I probably will never hunt Africa, but I do live and hunt in grizz country. (northern interior of B.C. Canada) and the 375H&H in the CZ550 is all I will ever need. One must keep in mind that it is not the caliber or load that is the most important thing, shooter skill and bullet placement IS.

Cheers&Tighter Groups: Eaglesnester ;) ;)
eaglesnester

16n69

Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2012, 10:37:02 PM »
Well said...This might be slightly off topic, I apologize...but then again not.
Why, I mean WHY is there so much hate for Weatherby rifles even if chambered in non-Wby calibers, on other forums, when used for the purpose of a DGR (dangerous game rifle) for DG in Africa & Alaska?
Why the documented "disdain" by African PHs and AK. guides for Weatherbys and the accounts of the rifles failing, bolts freezing shut, bolts flying out the rear when pulled hard or bolts stop breaks, etc., etc.?
I always thought a Weatherby was as good as most production rifles, but they are saying get the Win. M70 CFR action and not the crappy Weatherby PF (push feed)???

Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 06:34:59 PM »
I don't know why people on other sites dislike, hate, or bash Weatherbys.  Maybe it's because they don't have one or some other reason.  I really don't care, I like my Weatherbys and would not hesitate to use them to hunt any game especially dangerous game in Africa.

 I would like to offer my OPINION and rebuttal to Eaglersnester comments, not looking to start an argument or feud here just want to give another look point of view on his comments.  First I'd like to say I COMPLETELY and TOTALLY AGREE with his statement of, "One must keep in mind that it is not the caliber or load that is the most important thing, shooter skill and bullet placement IS".  This is the bottom line.


1) Control feeding is nice but I don't think it's a must have in a dangerous game, or any other rifle for that matter.  There are countless rifles that have push feed such as the tang safety Ruger M-77s, Remington 700s, and until recently the Winchester model 70s.  All of these companies I have mentioned chambered dangerous game calibers and had push feeding and sold God knows how many.  The only real time control feeding is absolutely necessary is if you're shooting upside down on your back, which I have to say in my twenty eight years hunting has never happened.  My simple solution to prevent this is to place my first shot properly.

2) Yes Weatherbys have 2 rounds in the magazine and 1 in the chamber.  I don't have a problem with that.  If you make the first shot count you don't need the other two.  One other thing, on A LOT of the hunting shows that I've seen where they are hunting in Africa MOST of the professional hunters are carrying a double, or as it's also called an express, rifle.  Those are side by sides with just TWO rounds.

3) I agree finding ammo can be tough depending on where you're at.  My solution to prevent this is to mail two boxes to my guide a head of time and confirm they arrived.  I also bring ammo with me.  Yeah it's an added expense but a small price to pay to have piece of mind.  Not to mention it saves you time from running around town trying to find any ammo.

4) Yes Weatherbys have a two position safety where you can't open the bolt with the safety on.  This was a very common feature to most rifles until recent times with the exception of Winchester's  three position safety.  I don't have a problem with this and know to always obey safe practices of keeping my finger off the trigger and the muzzle pointed in a safe direction all the time.

5) The Weatherby Mark V has a much shorter bolt lift than the CZs so I'll give that point to Weatherby because it means faster follow up shots.

6) As for problems with the bolts, I have NEVER seen or experienced any.  Personally I think that if the bolts froze or came flying out when cycling there is more to what was gong on.

As I said before I am not looking to start an argument with anyone I just wanted to post my thoughts regarding Eaglesnester's comments.  Everyone has the right to have their opinion, likes, and dislikes.  I just wanted to give another point of view to look for.  In the end Eaglesnester has what he likes, believes is the best dangerous game rifle for him, and is happy, nothing wrong with that at all.  For me I'll stick with the Weatherbys and have the same thoughts. 
Nothing is better than a Weatherby, big bore magnum, or a Colt.

eford

  • *****
  • 2544
    • View Profile
Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2012, 07:40:48 PM »
Never have I attempted to work the action of any rifle while upside down. I have also never slowly worked a bolt for a follow up shot. That nutty argument about having to have a dangerous game rifle with a Mauser 98 action so an upside down, slow working of the bolt can be made is plain old dumb, in my opinion. I put that statement in the same place as making a slow tackle on 4th and inches so you can keep up your stregth for the rest of the game.

Someday I might get to Africa or Alaska. Unless my uncle lets me take his Pre-64 Model 70 .375 H&H, I'm taking a Weatherby.  Knowwhatimean?

And yes, shot placement rules. Everyday.
Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine.

Every man needs to know his limits.

zonie

  • *****
  • 6793
    • View Profile
Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2012, 12:03:23 PM »
If you are hanging upside down some might consider you as being used as Leopard bait.   ; D

Both systems have plus and minus,  good and bad.   

Chris is right the tang safety  Ruger is actually a push  feed hybred,   it has a non rotating claw extractor aka mauser,   recessed bolt head and plunger ejector.   The newer Rugers are capture mauser types even then these mauser types don't always full capture until the cartridge starts coming  up out of the magazine.   

Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2012, 07:12:31 PM »
I plan to hunt Africa Some Day. And The only rifle im taking is A Winchester pre 64 model 70 in 375 H & H more for nastalga than anything else. I have no doubt it will do the job on Cape Buffalo. And there is no doubt that the 378 Weatherby is A superior cartridge. but that title comes with A price and I dont mean money. The recoil I have heard is Brutal. Nuff said.
Mark

Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2013, 08:43:53 PM »
Been to Namibia once, shot everything there with a pre MKV Weatherby in .300 Wby.  My  PH has shot lion and elephant on cull with a 300 mag.  I've fired the .378, can't say that I enjoyed it. I've got a .458 Win. in an eleven pound rifle that is nicer to shoot. Any .30 calibler or larger bullet will kill ALL African game.  No rifle made is guaranteed to stop a charge! Good hunting, guy.

Re: African Big Game and the 378
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2013, 10:01:26 PM »
Ive owned a 378 for 12 years now...... Why do i have it ??????   I dont have the foggiest clue. I pert near tore the head plumb off of a mule deer doe with it once, but other than that, shes just a conversational piece..... The recoil is brutal, even when ported. Thats just the way it is..... One look at the shell will tell you all you need to know. Ive heard people claim how their 378 is such a pussy cat etc. etc ........ Unless it is in the 18-23 lb class, recoil is substantial, and THAT is of consideration when taking it on safari.... I own a 458 win mag that is considerably more manageable, but still a handfull. The guides i have known dislike weatherby's largely because the bulk of people taking them over there just plain cant shoot or handle them. This creates a dangerous condition for both guide and client..... They would rather see you shoot fast and accurate than slow and lousy.... Dont get me wrong.... I love my Weatherby's, all 6 of them, but truthfully, my 257 WM IS MY FAVORITE, and i wouldnt hesitate to use it on anything but the biggest and meanest.
Colt Army