Spike Camp

RL 33

RL 33
« on: January 20, 2016, 12:28:30 PM »
Has anyone tried RL 33 in the 270 Wea or the 257 Wea. I'm looking for somewhere to start with 150 gr and 120 gr bullets in these calibers.

Re: RL 33
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2016, 10:47:19 AM »
I had tried RL33 in my son 257 with 117gr SSTs with poor results. You need a compressed load to get good speed which resulted in groups openning up. Went back to RL22 with great results. RL33 is great for the 30-378 but not for the 257.
Rick

Re: RL 33
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2016, 11:09:42 AM »
Did you get any vel figures from this load. I've worked up to 81grs . I feel this is max, but didn't get any velocity data yet. What was your max load. Thanks for the response.

dubyam

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Re: RL 33
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2016, 11:26:21 AM »
If you're working up without data, and without a chronograph, I'll just say I think that's unwise.  Velocity is the only directly proportional, measurable value which indicates pressure.  Any time you're working up loads you should be chronographing, but especially if you're working up from extrapolated or guesstimated data.  A quick bit of calculation shows me that 81gr load is right at the edge of safe or perhaps a few thousand psi over max.  Without velocity, you have no idea what's happening with it.
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

Re: RL 33
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2016, 03:50:24 PM »
I hear you and normally chrono my loads, just that right now i'm knee deep in snow. Having said that I developed many loads prior to having a chrono that were safe by watching for pressure. I've been loading for over 30 yrs and the first 10 were without a chrono. Many loaders still don't have one, yet i'm sure they develop safe loads. Once you have a starting point then you watch for pressure signs as you increase your load. I've worked up many loads that went beyond the manuals, and some where I couldn't get to their max load, all that was needed was a starting point. Once I've got some data( next week or so) i'll post the results. Thanks
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 04:06:29 PM by canadian reloarder »

Re: RL 33
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2016, 07:29:16 AM »
I started out at 76.2gr (average 3150fps) and went up to 79.7gr. (average 3370fps) with a coal of 3.215". 79.7gr would be my max , bolt lift and primers were still good but ES and groups were both opening up so I stopped. QL is a little off on this combination from my experience. Still 81gr is a lot of powder under a 120gr bullet in an 257 case. I believe RL33 is just too slow for the 257 , there are better choices out there. The only reason I tried it because I have it for a different rifle. For the record I also tried H1000 and had mixed results , but for my sons S2 with Hornady's 117gr SST RL22 is the ticket.
Rick

dubyam

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Re: RL 33
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2016, 09:09:45 AM »
I ran some QL projections, using an adjusted calculation method which tends to at least get close for Weatherbys in accommodating the freebore, and it showed 81gr running nearly 3500fps - which would be in line with your data, RML - and pressure above 65kpsi.  Running your loads with my adjusted calculation method gives comparable data to what you posted in terms of velocity (within single digits deviation on both charges).

Also, Canadian Reloader, my apologies if I assumed too much about your loading habits and experience.  Hard to know from across the internet.  But it sounds like you have a good handle on handloading.  I'm a huge proponent of chronographs for development due to my own personal experience in reading pressure (including using a blade mic to measure casehead expansion) and knowing that most of the signs we use are underestimating pressure substantially.  By the time bolt lift is sticky on the average bolt gun, pressures are well into the 5-digits above acceptable ranges, usually.  Mic'ing caseheads taught me a ton about pressure and how unreliable the signs can be sometimes.

But, you sound like you're safe and knowledgeable, so carry on.  Be safe!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 09:13:07 AM by dubyam »
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

Re: RL 33
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2016, 10:24:00 AM »
RML30/378.. Thanks for the numbers. When I get around to getting some of my own I'l post the #'s. I also used RL 22 and it is my go to powder, but I was just trying to try something different. RL 22 has gotten me 3345 ft/sec with the 120 gr Sierra gameking with under MOA accuracy in 24" vanguard. Mabey i'm chasing something here that can't be caught.
 Dubyam.. Thanks for the QL data. I've read many of your posts and often rely on your opinion. I guess 65kpsi would probably put me 2 or 3 kpsi over the limit. If I'm not mistaken the max pressure is app 63000 psi.  When I get the chance I will chrono the 80gr load and see what I get. When I started this undertaking I had a choice of getting some RL 33 or RL 26. I felt that the  26 would probably better suited to this cartridge but went against my better judgement and listened to someone else, and purchased some RL33.  Anyway if RL 33 doesn't work I still have place for it. Thanks guys

dubyam

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Re: RL 33
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2016, 10:38:12 AM »
If it makes you feel any better, the specs are a little shy of reality, and I use 65kpsi for my Weatherby rounds as that's where Roy built them to when he wildcatted them. Why in the world SAAMI put the standard so low is beyond me. Sometimes I wonder who's driving the bus over there.

You can safely work up and if you pm me we can connect via email and discuss it in more detail if you need further info. Suffice it to say your working up to 81 was a textbook workup to max or just over max pressure. If your chamber was cut early in the life of the reamer, giving you just a scosche more chamber volume, you could be right at max pressure. Good work, without a chronograph!

Thanks for the compliment as well. I love this stuff and if I had it to do over again I'd be a ballistician for a living.
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

Re: RL 33
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2016, 10:46:02 AM »
Yes I just love this stuff also. Probably why i'm always trying to get  a little more accuracy or a little more vel. Thanks for the email offer. I'll PM you if I feel I need help or numbers.

Re: RL 33
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2016, 04:03:58 PM »
Well I just couldn't wait any longer. Set my chronograph up outside my barn and ran a 3 shot string over the screens. Corrected muzzle vel with 80grs of RL 33, 120gr Sierra , fed 215 and wea case was 3310ft/sec from my 24" barrel.There was no unburned powder on the snow covered ground nor in the barrel. In fact the barrel was much cleaner than with some other faster powders. I know that this is a very small test and not a lot can be taken from it.But having said that  I would think that like rml30/378 and dubyam have said it is probably a tad slow for this round espically with a 24" barrel. I will still check this load out for accuracy in late spring. I think I may try it in my 270 Wea with 150 gr bullets.Mabey it will do better.
  I would like to also  add that the shooting was done a -8C ( 18F) temp.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 04:35:45 PM by canadian reloarder »

BB340

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Re: RL 33
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2016, 11:43:38 AM »
I have tried quite a few different powders in my .257 WBY, mainly Australian powders that are temperature stable, I haven't tried RE33 but if you want to try RE25 I think you will get a big surprise. It is a great powder for the .257 b.
I am running 72 grains behind the 115grn TSX for close to 3400 FPS with no signs of pressure.
Just my 2cents worth lol
Cheers.
Aussie gun nut.

Re: RL 33
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2016, 01:08:08 PM »
Thanks BB340. I tried 25 in the past, and vel was real good but I couldn't get consistent good accuracy. I think I'll give MRP a try or just stick with RL 22. Then again there's RL 26 just waiting to be tried.

Re: RL 33
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2016, 10:14:28 AM »
I have tried quite a few different powders in my .257 WBY, mainly Australian powders that are temperature stable, I haven't tried RE33 but if you want to try RE25 I think you will get a big surprise. It is a great powder for the .257 b.
I am running 72 grains behind the 115grn TSX for close to 3400 FPS with no signs of pressure.
Just my 2cents worth lol
Cheers.
I'll second the RL 25 with the 257. It's worth a try from my experience!

Re: RL 33
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2016, 01:07:41 PM »
Well I finally got around to trying RL-33 in my 270 Wea and 7mm Wea. I didn't have data as to load maximums so I used pressure ring measurements from established loads I had been using for some years.For my 270 this measurement was .5159. With RL 33 I worked up tp 83 grs using a 150 Hornady SP , Fed 215 in a Weatherby case and stopped. Not because of pressure  because this load gave PR readings of .5150 but because 83 grs is about all I would want to compress in this case. Velocity was 3048 ft/sec. This is over 150 ft/sec less that my usual load of H 450 using over 10% more powder 
 In my 7mm Wea I used a Pressure Ring reading of .5148 from a safe max load. I worked up again to 83 grs of RL 33 with a 175 gr Hornady spt  and stopped again because of the compression.The PR reading was .5145 , again below max. The vel was 2920 ft/sec.  This is about 130 ft/sec less than my standard load with this same bullet using  RL 25  and about 10 % less powder.
 When I began this small test I believed RL 33 to be about half way between RL 25 and H 870 on the burn rate chart. I was wrong as I now believe it to be just as slow as H 870, and as with H 870 it can be used in these calibers but there are better powders available that use less powder and give better vel with a better case capacity to bullet ratio. I would think that RL 33 be a better powder in the 300 Wea or the new 6.5 Bee.