Spike Camp

Remington outdoor company bankrup!

Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2018, 06:52:23 AM »
In my opinion one of the major problems that got Remington here was buying up the other companies.  If they stuck to being Remington rather than buying up all those other companies they could focus on their quality and keeping their customers happy.  You'd think companies would realize that since it's been proven countless times over that the more different brands they make the quality takes a nose dive.  I'm no economist or bean counter but if I owned or was running a business I'd stick to making my own brand rather than being greedy and trying to corner the entire market.  I might not make as much money but I'd definitely have a decent hold on my part of it.  I guess I'm a victim of common sense and not afflicted by greed.
Nothing is better than a Weatherby, big bore magnum, or a Colt.

dubyam

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Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2018, 07:07:50 AM »
This has two basic causes, and won't result in the death of Remington,  as there are just too many people who want to buy 700s. The two causes are quality control, and profiteering. The first is a result of the second. When Remington got into trouble in the early part of the 2000s, gunmakers in general were in trouble. At that same time, Winchester, Savage, Marlin, Beretta, and others were all struggling. So Cerebrus swooped in and bought Remington along with some other brands, and began to try to milk the brands for profit, by making cheaper products while keeping prices high. That worked until folks caught onto the hit or miss quality, and then sales started to slip. Cerebrus spun it off and started the Freedom Group eventually, and the cycle continued with a new group doing the milking. Now they've run up as much debt as they can, paid themselves well, screwed millions of customers, and can't keep milking. So it's time for bankruptcy to restructure (read: welch on) their debt. What will happen us the debt will get restructured (and suppliers and employees will get screwed) and the brands will eventually get sold off one or two at a time until someone comes along along buys Remington and either destroys it again or brings quality back and competes with Browning, Winchester, Beretta/Sako/Tikka, Savage, and Weatherby.
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

danno50

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Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2018, 07:16:14 AM »
+1 Chris, It was not money well spent.  It seems that Remington surrounded itself with many good manufactures, who still had to build to Remington spec's, who was trying to save money, by manufacturing functional parts, not necessarily quality material. When the pocket book shrinks, all phases of a company are affected one way or another, but the public recognized the corner cutting in their products, as 257 mentioned. (list of mfg's of which I had heard of, but not familiar with below)
http://www.nesikafirearms.com/

https://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=213

http://www.storm-lake.com/products/barrel/builder/NE

http://www.timbersmithusa.com/

http://www.advanced-armament.com/
DosEquisShooter

.257

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Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2018, 07:56:50 AM »
I agree with most of what has been posted here. But IMO Remington to start was buying up small companies that were in trouble or did not have the funds to expand. Some of what was profitable some wasn't.
I like Barnes bullets but I remember when I was using the original Barnes bullets and they were very hard to find. The company was small and only when they were bought out were they able to have the backing to expand and develop the X bullets that we use today.
A lot of the firearm companies had to produce cheaper models to stay in business because of the cheap crap that was hitting the market in the 80's!
IMO this is the only reason why Weatherby has the Vanguard line. Which what I seen in the 80's were not good. But it is what companies have to do to stay in business
Savage was once a level rifle, model 99. To stay in business started with bolt actions. They have two things going for them, their bolts, and the barrel nuts on their barrels, combined make a very accurate rifle. If not for that, not so sure where Savage would be. I am glad they are still in business because one of my favorite long range rifles is a Savage

All this said, I still think it is sad for a company with long standing is filing for bankruptcy
Mike

Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2018, 08:10:29 AM »
I was told that the California teachers union wanted out of their Cerberus investment, and Cerberus paid them about $700 million which brought on a lot of debt.  I assume they didn't want to be involved with the firearm industry.  I think this debt issue combined with the quality issues have led to the need to file bankruptcy. 
BPH

Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2018, 09:09:29 AM »
I was told that the California teachers union wanted out of their Cerberus investment, and Cerberus paid them about $700 million which brought on a lot of debt.  I assume they didn't want to be involved with the firearm industry.  I think this debt issue combined with the quality issues have led to the need to file bankruptcy.
 
I remember that, now that you mention it. They also said they were selling off Bushmaster after the mass shootings using that weapon and never did. It certainly sounds like some serious management errors.   :)

DW5

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Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2018, 09:54:52 AM »
BTW, Welcome to the Nation Brandon. :).

Thanks, I have been lurking for some time. Trying to decide what mark v to buy and finally decided to join.

Welcome! What are you thinking about getting?
You cant catch a fish without a hook in the water....

Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2018, 03:16:00 PM »
BTW, Welcome to the Nation Brandon. :).

Thanks, I have been lurking for some time. Trying to decide what mark v to buy and finally decided to join.

Welcome! What are you thinking about getting?

After much thought I put a new accumark in 270 weatherby on layaway. Going to top it with a leupold vx5hd 3-15x44 in dual dove tail mounts. Planning on it being my go to rifle for deer all the way up to moose.

galamb

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Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2018, 03:38:29 PM »
Most dealers in my end of Canada, myself included, can't give away a Rem 700 at any price. Nobody wants them. I can honestly say it has been over 2 years since we last sold one.

It might have been the way they dealt with the trigger issue or they just simply fell out of favor. Whatever the cause I have more than two dozen listed at "below cost, at par with the US dollar, 2014 prices" and they just sit there collecting dust with nobody even asking to hold them.

The 783 was popular in the entry level models for a couple of years when they first came out - the wholesale on them "with scope" was 100 bucks less then a bare Axis. But after the initial push the price started rising.

Even the entry level 870 Express is no longer a seller. There was a time we couldn't keep them in stock then about 2 years back they jacked the price and nobody even asks for them anymore. But to be fair the Mossberg 500 which was the main competition no longer moves much either. In the pump shotgun market, Dickinson's and Churchill's get gobbled up by those looking for their first shotgun. The "most popular shotgun of all time, the 870" is not even asked about.
Graham
R.C.A.F (Retired)
Ontario, Canada
The Great White North EH!

Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2018, 05:04:22 PM »
Some investment group will come in and buy the debt for pennies on the dollar just to keep the Remington name. That's my guess.
JW

240 Wby Mag - Mauser 98 w/ ER Shaw Barrel 26"
257 Wby Mag - Vanguard Synthetic (Changed to walnut stock)
6.5-300 Wby Mag - Vanguard Synthetic Series II 26"
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Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2018, 05:09:58 PM »
It's bad to see one of the oldest US gun Makers have problems. You just don't hear talk of people buying Remington's any more. Being from New York, Remington Shot Guns was all any one would use for Deer Hunting, hope they make it.
O C hunter

dubyam

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Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2018, 05:24:16 PM »
Some investment group will come in and buy the debt for pennies on the dollar just to keep the Remington name. That's my guess.
Some investment group will come in and buy the debt for pennies on the dollar just to keep the Remington name. That's my guess.

That's the most likely scenario, for sure. Hopefully whomever buys it invests in quality, rather than profit taking.
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2018, 08:28:57 PM »
BTW, Welcome to the Nation Brandon. :).

Thanks, I have been lurking for some time. Trying to decide what mark v to buy and finally decided to join.

Welcome! What are you thinking about getting?

After much thought I put a new accumark in 270 weatherby on layaway. Going to top it with a leupold vx5hd 3-15x44 in dual dove tail mounts. Planning on it being my go to rifle for deer all the way up to moose.

The 270 Wby is a great choice, personally I have 3 of them  8)


Most dealers in my end of Canada, myself included, can't give away a Rem 700 at any price. Nobody wants them. I can honestly say it has been over 2 years since we last sold one.

It might have been the way they dealt with the trigger issue or they just simply fell out of favor. Whatever the cause I have more than two dozen listed at "below cost, at par with the US dollar, 2014 prices" and they just sit there collecting dust with nobody even asking to hold them.

The 783 was popular in the entry level models for a couple of years when they first came out - the wholesale on them "with scope" was 100 bucks less then a bare Axis. But after the initial push the price started rising.

Even the entry level 870 Express is no longer a seller. There was a time we couldn't keep them in stock then about 2 years back they jacked the price and nobody even asks for them anymore. But to be fair the Mossberg 500 which was the main competition no longer moves much either. In the pump shotgun market, Dickinson's and Churchill's get gobbled up by those looking for their first shotgun. The "most popular shotgun of all time, the 870" is not even asked about.

Same here at gun shows in Saskatchewan and Alberta, I've been at. They just cant sell Remington products, they rarely bring them any more. Why haul them to a gun show, and don't sell any of them.

Rob
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accumark-223Rem
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synthetic-257 Wby
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eford

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Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2018, 12:31:22 AM »
In my mini-micro level of firearms sales, one person in the last five years has come to me and said they want a Remington. Most of them are buying a Weatherby rifle or a pistol from Smith & Wesson or Springfield Armory. The late 1980s Remington 700s were good. I've heard that from several gun shop owners. Like others have said, they also said the quality went down. The trigger issues only added fuel to the fire.

Make good firearms, sell them, service them as needed with highly skilled and friendly people who have the customer in mind and quality as a priority and good things happen-------and here I'm saying that on the Weatherby forum. That's preaching to the choir.
Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine.

Every man needs to know his limits.

.257

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Re: Remington outdoor company bankrup!
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2018, 04:29:34 AM »
The older Remington action is what most custom rifles are built with
Mike