Spike Camp

Red Dot sights

dubyam

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Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2018, 05:30:16 AM »
Red dots take some getting used to, but for a close quarters use rifle for high stress situations, they may be the best option. Use it like a shotgun bead (both eyes open, pointing at target, rather than aiming precisely) and you're thinking correctly. Not that you don't aim - you just aim like you'd point a shotgun, so you're quick, within a few inches, and keep moving through your defensive scenario. For inside 50yds, they are very fast to acquire targets and the overall hit ratio is very high once you get used to the tactic of using the dot.

I'm a big proponent of shooting with both eyes open all the time, but for folks who squint one eye while scope shooting, be ready to fight that urge and use a red dot with both eyes open. The field of view and clarity of multiple targets is greatly enhanced, and for me, it becomes a view with an aiming point floating in space, encircled by a little black ring. Seems to work well to draw your eye to your target, and your situational awareness is enhanced by full stereoscopic vision.
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

danno50

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Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2018, 06:20:38 AM »
I've got a red dot with 1x4 power crosshairs scope on a lever action 357 mag and it works great. Being a 357 cal its sighted in at 75 yards and theres no clutter or guessing when you get on target. Using it as a self defense weapon at home is something I hadn't given much thought to, but I'll walk it through the house tonight in the dark to see what its like.
DosEquisShooter

Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2018, 07:08:28 AM »
Ya'll always have good opinions and observations to throw out there. The scope idea occurred to me, but I really like the fact that these red dots have infinite eye relief, so the eye to sight distance and mounting position is not critical. I figure most of my shooting with it will be at 50 yards and under and some fast shooting, so a red dot seems appropriate. I also like the fact that both eyes stay open, as Dub said. BTW, some city in Illinois supposedly outlawed possession of "assault rifles," as they love to call AR's.
Some like cologne, I like the smell of gunpowder.

dubyam

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Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2018, 07:58:33 AM »
I wonder if they defined it to include my defensive rifle (because mine isn't an assault rifle...)?
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

zonie

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Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2018, 08:12:51 AM »
Been my experience almost all good shooters/hunters shoot with both eye's open.   It came natural for me,  it doesn't matter what type of gun handgun, shotgun, rifle.   Sometimes people in training or competition will put a blinder on but still keep that eye open,  people as an example left eye dominant and shooting right handed   will tape off the left lens on their shooting glasses and keep the left eye open to train them selves to use their right eye,  my wife had to do that until she got use to using her right eye.   Red dots on handguns can be more accurate vs standard iron sights this is especially true when you get into the very small dot sizes,  generally 50 meters our race handguns will shoot no more than 1  1/2 " with a red dot,  if I change to irons I can't see well enough to come anywhere near close to that accuracy even though the gun is fully capable of that accuracy.  When you get into rifles at much longer ranges your better aperture sights are pretty hard to beat for iron sights at least.  Shooting really fast a 1 moa dot is harder to pick up in varying lighting conditions and the dot's brightness intensity has to be adjusted accordingly and repeated adjustment during the day to compensate for how light or dark the background is at that time.   It's something you have to play with as the day goes on,  it's not a big deal.  Two bad things to do is leave the dot on 10 which might be totally right for extreme sunny conditions and forget about the setting and go to shoot something in the shady overcast sky and all you see is a super bright red dot and the opposite is true don't leave the dot on 1 and expect to see it when it sunny out.   My point is you have to train yourself to be mindful of making sure the dot is at the correct brightness all day long.   One thing I do like on my little short barreled 20 ga turkey shotgun is I sight it in  and pattern it for 30 yds , aim for the turkeys head and it just flops over that a little micro sig with a 4 moa dot @ 30 yds is just about the right size for old tom turkey and that little light weight youth model Mossberg 22" barrel 20 ga using 3" number 6 lead pheasant loads will whack the dog snot out of any turkey out to 40 yds or a little more.  I gave up using 12 ga's this little gun works so good , although I do have a cool little short barrel  loaner 12 ga with a red dot on it for friends, it does the same thing with more shot, more recoil in a heavier package. 
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 08:16:35 AM by zonie »

Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2018, 12:26:19 PM »
I looked through a Vortex Strikefire II yesterday evening at Academy and it wasn't for me with it's 4 moa dot. Sighted it on ceiling sprinkler heads about 30-35 yards across the store and the dot covered a lot of them up. I think I may have a slight astigmatism too, because the dot was not crisp and had sort of an hourglass shape. When I shot with my friend's SIG Romeo (2 moa dot) last weekend, I didn't notice any of that. I'd say that large dot amplifies a small problem into a big one if it really is astigmatism. It's possible the glass was just grimy (it was a display model, mounted on a dummy rifle, handled a lot), but 4 moa dots may be a problem with my 60 year old eyes. I forgot to do the rotate test while I was looking through it (rotate the sight and see if the dot irregularities rotate with it) to verify if it was the sight or me. I know a prism sight is supposed to work wonders in this area, but the prices are beyond my meager budget at the moment. If you have older eyes, looks like you need to be more choosy.

A little update: I went back to Academy yesterday and picked up a Vortex SPARC II and mounted it on my AR. It was the last one they had, except for the display unit. Considered a SIG Romeo5 at the same price, but this one won out. I've found I do have a bit of astigmatism and that with a 2 moa dot, the flare effect caused by that is far less with the smaller dot. The 4 moa sight I had looked at earlier looked crappy as hell to my eyes. If any of ya'll have semi-old eyes like me, I think a smaller dot is actually much better believe it or not. Haven't shot and zeroed this thing yet, but so far, I am quite impressed with what I got for the money (needed to stay at $200 or less). It's a solid, well designed, nice looking sight and appears to be as rugged as I have heard. I would recommend anybody looking in this price range to have a look at this one. I'll put a pix below to show what these look like.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 08:37:00 AM by texweatherby »
Some like cologne, I like the smell of gunpowder.

Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2018, 08:36:56 AM »
I have that sight on my 300BKT upper. It works well for my old eyes.  Keep a couple extra batteries around.  :)

Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2018, 08:39:11 AM »
Two came with it. I'll keep the 2nd one handy LOL!
Some like cologne, I like the smell of gunpowder.

Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2018, 09:08:46 AM »
The battery doesn't get used up while turned off like the E O Tech does, but they have a way of dying when you are counting on them.    :)

dubyam

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Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2018, 09:24:59 AM »
That's the same sight I have on my first AR, and it is a great piece of kit for under 100yds. I also have a mild astigmatism and find the dot very crisp until I turn the brightness up one click too far, then it gets a little fuzzy. I would probably go with a little fuzzy in a home/personal defense scenario as id want to keep it visible, and ranges are likely to be very close, so precision is much less a concern than at longer ranges.

You've built a good kit, Tex, and it should serve you well. Enjoy your practice!
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2018, 10:57:19 AM »
Thanks Dub and everybody for input.
Some like cologne, I like the smell of gunpowder.

PARA45

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Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2018, 05:44:42 PM »
Awesome Tex, congrats on a fine red dot!  Later on, if you want you can change the pistol grip on your AR, and replace it with a MagPul grip, and they have a compartment to store spare batteries, or spare parts.  Great grip, and much better than the one the guns come with. 

Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2018, 07:52:01 PM »
That's a good idea. I kind of like the fact that Vortex has "tex" in it too LOL.
Some like cologne, I like the smell of gunpowder.

Re: Red Dot sights
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2018, 07:30:22 PM »
Vortex also makes a side flip magnifier for relatively cheap. In case you decide you'd like to shoot a little further.

Red dots aren't meant for precision work, true enough. But sometimes a "hit" is good enough. I've used my Aimpoint Patrols to shoot steel out to 500 yds with Kentucky Windage and a good spotter. Have fun.
"The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence."