Thoughts?

[DW5]

This idea is from an article that Danno posted over in the “other big game” section. If you haven’t read it I encourage you to click over there and give it a look. Thanks for doing the work to post that btw Danno!

 It’s a topic I’ve been fascinated with for a while now, but never heard the theory posited concerning hogs. I’ve always heard it about coyotes. The basic idea being you can’t really hunt them out. That the “herd” as a whole realize the population is dropping and the fertile females will have more pups/piglets to make up for this.

Dan Flores lays out the case for this better than I could hope to explain in his book Coyote America. As an aside, he’s a great writer and I’d recommend this book along with American Serengeti. He also lays out his coyote case very well on a few podcasts I’m sure you could find by google searching “dan flores coyote podcast.”

I’m no biologist, and the people doing this research are way smarter than me, but I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea, especially after growing up repeatedly hearing how human predation and market hunting hammered turkeys, deer and elk, and buffalo probably most of all. That’s not to say I turn my nose up at the science, just that it’s a very foreign concept to me, the idea that unmitigated human hunting actually INCREASES the population.

I recently read a study (can’t remember exactly where) that said in the South at least, coyote shooting may decrease the population on a given tract of land but still caused the birth boom over a much greater land area than the particular shooters are paying attention too.

Just wondering if anyone had run across this concept before and if anyone had any thoughts? Again, thanks to Danno for the post and I encourage anyone to go read his post.

Hope everyone has a good weekend!

[TexWeatherby]

This could very well be, at least to some extent. While I am certainly no authority on controlling animal populations, I feel part of the problem is that the amount of hog hunting going on in comparison to their numbers is drastically insignificant at best, due to the "system" now in place. That condition is human greed, as nobody lets anybody hunt hogs (or anything) on their land anymore unless they can make big bucks off of it. I know that if I (and a zillion other guys) could go hunt hogs for free here in Texas as part of some statewide eradication program, I'd be all over it repeatedly and might have to get in line. Massive hunting levels would have to take down the numbers at least somewhat by outpacing reproduction rates (gestation periods certainly won't get shorter) if instituted on a large scale. But, because of the almighty dollar ("Wanna hunt? Show me the big money, bubba"), this won't happen. Greed is running most everything these days, which is why 95% of the crap we need to buy says "Made in China" on it.

[224KING]

I will say 1 thing about each.

Some 6 or 7 years ago a TP&W game biologist said that once you see hogs,in your area,being hit on the highway that they were beyond eradication.I have communicated this before on WN.He said they are such smart animals and learn to adapt that if you see them start to get run over on the hwy that their numbers are so high you'll never get rid of them in that local vicinity.

In my personal dealings with coyotes I have found that I can kill them off a place for only 1 or 2 weeks.I might shoot 3 or 4 and I won't see any for a bit.The next thing I know I'll see 1 or 2 running together regularly.I'll take them out and soon there will be more.In my country all you have to do to realize your way out numbered is to listen to the groups talking when the sun goes down.I have had the hair stand up on the back of my neck several times leaving the deer stand after dark and walking back to the truck.Several will start yipping to the right and you think oh just a couple coyotes then you hear some to your left or behind you.They know your there and are talking to each other about you.

[TexWeatherby]

They are damn smart, but I like to think we are smarter, LOL! They adapt, then we adapt - with longer range shots, hunting at various hours, etc. I do think it's a numbers game - every one that gets shot won't be mating and spitting out another litter, which then all reproduce soon after.

[224KING]

Most hunters shoot the wrong gender.Everyone I know goes for the big boars.That's the exact opposite you need to do if trying to lower their numbers.

[DW5]

Most hunters shoot the wrong gender.Everyone I know goes for the big boars.That's the exact opposite you need to do if trying to lower their numbers.

Yep.  I am definitely guilty of this too. Even though I know better, I still get the most excited about the big boar with good cutters. Another thing I think a lot of hunters don’t realize is that if you take out the lead sow the rest of the sounder will be much easier to shoot/trap for the  immediate future. The large boars tend to run solo most of the time. It’s the old matriarch that is leading/teaching the group.

[Cbloom20]

From what I've read, you have to kill 70% of the hogs to maintain a stable population. Just based on them changing their behavior based on hunting pressure, that's very hard to do. Not to mention that pigs reach sexual maturity in 8 months and can have 2 litters per year. Trapping works, but only is you can catch the entire sounder at once. Otherwise, the ones who escape learn to avoid the traps. The best way to erradiacte hogs in a specific area, in my opinion, is to use fencing they cannot bypass, then conduct heli-hunts to kill every single pig within the fence.

[danno50]

Most hunters shoot the wrong gender.Everyone I know goes for the big boars.That's the exact opposite you need to do if trying to lower their numbers.

+1 Tom. We always told our guys in camp to take out the sows first to take out the breeders. Second choice was smaller eating size hogs. Third choice boars if they came in alone. I also agree that leaving the blind after dark was a bit spooky with coyotes howling all around. Sometimes I would swear they couldn't have been but about 40 or 50 yards behind or beside me. Hogs are prolific breeders, unlike turkey, deer, elk, and buffalo that have one or two in a litter once a year, which is the difference in being able to almost eradicate a whole species. The sows in a litter can start as early as eight months or sooner of their life span to begin breeding and litters can be 8 to 12 at a time twice a year. Hogs eat virtually anything they can find, plants, crops, seeds, roots to worms and snakes sometimes. They really are  out of control and the "Pay to Play" system here in Texas is not conducive to the solution.
Amended: The number of hogs per litter is between 5 and 6+, not 8 or 12

[Cbloom20]

the "Pay to Play" system here in Texas is not conducive to the solution.

I think the issue is that the decison makers don't actually want to erradicate hogs. We all admit that they're invasive and a problem, but the State makes money off of them. So long as you can sell out of state hunting licenses for folks to come down and kill them, the State will never allow policies that will ACTUALLY remove all pigs.

[Big Muddy rancher]

I usually only shoot coyotes in the winter, seems I can shoot 12 to 20 very winter out the back door. Other neighbors shoot similar numbers and we haven't eliminated them yet.

[Michiganhunter]

There is a 1600 acre high fence game reserve not too far from me. They started it about 25 years ago. They wanted it mainly for whitetails but in the beginning they needed to make money while they were waiting for the deer to be harvested. The quickest crop would be pheasants, Hungarian partridge and Russian boars. The pigs reproduced and were viable to hunt in two years. In five years they had so many pigs that it affected the whitetails. The pigs would not let the deer feed. They decided to completely eradicate the pigs. They allowed 5 pigs to be taken by each whitetail hunter at no cost. It didn’t help. They people that worked there shot every pig they saw. I was invited to hunt pigs and shot about 50 pigs in about six months. To this day the pigs are still present in spite of all the efforts to rid them on the reserve.
I have also trapped for about 55 years. Muskrats, beaver, otter, mink, raccoons, opossum, Fox, Coyotes etc... I take a certain amount of each specie and pull my traps from the area when I reach a certain number. This has been going on in the same area for all those years. The only animal that reproduces and never goes down is the coyotes. I trap them year round because they eat many of the furbearers I trap. Coyotes and pigs seem to adapt better than any animal, besides rats, that I have experience with. Fortunately, where I live there are not any wild pigs running around.

[Elvis300]

I grew up in West Texas hunting hogs and "dogs" year round. My uncle was almost obsessed with coyote hunting. We killed them year round on the same ranch for 20 years and although we might put a bigger dent some years and it would seem like there were fewer we never went a single week that I can remember without killing a few coyotes. The most we killed in one week was 42. When hunting hogs,   We only ever shot the smaller sows, 125-150 pounds .  I kept my freezer , both my brothers , my uncles and my parents not to mention the ranch owner and ranch hands stocked with pork year round and we never even thinned out the heard . Seemed like every time you saw a sow cross the road she was followed by 5 to 6 footballs.  We even shot a few footballs for camp meet during the winter hunts.  They are as thick as thieves right now .. Actually overrunning the place to be honest as the rancher passed away and the new owner stopped all hunting.

[Northern hunter]

Are the pigs used to tannerite? An old timer i know uses this for magpies gets about 12 in on the bait and shoots and ignites the tannerite gets every one at the bait.

[danno50]

The tannerite worked really well on magpies, but it doesn't seem to be recommended or advocated as a method of getting rid of pigs by biologist, farmers, or trappers. From the videos I've seen on the internet, only a couple of hogs are killed during the explosions and the rest get away. Maybe not enough tannerite is used, but the pigs don't stay grouped up long enough either, so many escape the explosion. Even when tannerite is used in conjunction with night hunting, it isn't very effective as your shooting at moving targets with night vision scopes and thats not easy. Maybe someone else has some light to shed on this subject?