Spike Camp

Non lead bullets

Non lead bullets
« on: July 08, 2018, 03:00:41 PM »
When I first read about the lead ban in loony California, I assumed several other states would follow. The science sucks but that has never stopped others .  I saw that and started using  non lead bullets, just to be ahead of the curve that never happened (yet).  I started developing loads using the only option at that time, Barnes.  Once I saw the accuracy I was getting in a bunch of calibers, there was no turning back. Duby convinced me to try the E-Tips. While not as successful for me as the TSX/TTSX bullets in the many calibers, they do work well in a few. Taking a 200lb. hog at 30 some yards proved to me the TSX worked where others disintegrated for the velocity at that range.  Anybody else get stuck using these?   :)

BB340

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Re: Non lead bullets
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2018, 04:15:08 PM »
While I am not stuck using non lead bullets I am a huge fan of Barnes TSX's. I run them in a lot of my rifles and especially in high velocity ones and dangerous game calibers. I too didn't have much luck with the E-tips and couldn't get them to shoot as accurate as I can the Barnes.
But most of my day to day rifles still use simply cup and core lead projectiles.
Aussie gun nut.

Blackbear3

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Re: Non lead bullets
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2018, 05:19:38 PM »
There have been bills here in Minnesota to only allow lead free projectiles for all hunting, luckily the bills have all seen limited support. But it wouldn't surprise me to see it pass some day. But I have switched to Barnes in most of my rifles just because they seem to work as well as the Partitions and Ballistic Tips I used before. Some of the data I have read does show a danger to children from lead particles in game meat, so it seemed like a good reason to switch also.
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Doug-NRA Life Member

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Re: Non lead bullets
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2018, 06:16:49 PM »
I used to shoot the Barnes  originals so when they came out with the X bullet l just starting using them for big game. So l really can't say l am  stuck  with them either. I have never had a Barnes bullet fail to do the job.


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zonie

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Re: Non lead bullets
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2018, 08:38:31 PM »
Arizona hasn't made it mandatory quite yet, but when they re-introduced the California Condor in the north rim area the biologists got enough evidence of the Condors eating  dead small game, predators and gut piles  from large animals the red flags came up.  It's got to be 15 + years ago the powers to be started vouchers for  2 boxes of factory ammo with lead free bullets i.e.  Barnes at the local participating sporting good stores. still got a few boxes of that ammo,  didn't shoot worth a darn in our rifles, but I did load up some of my loads and got them to shoot pretty decent.  After a few years if memory serves me G & F stopped giving out ammo vouchers as far as I know.  I don't have a problem using lead free bullets per say I've used them in Africa and here on elk,  They shoot ok I won't say they are the best thing since sliced bread because they do have faults as does most other types of bullets,  it's a matter of matching what you are trying to do with the bullet.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 08:21:49 AM by zonie »

Re: Non lead bullets
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2018, 01:33:45 AM »
Not to make light of the problems of lead and it's poisoning effects, but, I do not think condors would ever make it around here in the greater Central Texas area.   I was on a property adjacent to Camp Swift, about forty-five miles from here, a couple of years ago.  It was the middle of a very dry Summer, and there was hardly any grass or vegetation left on the ground.  You could not walk ten feet without seeing a projectile or some part of a projectile on the bare ground.  And Camp Swift is a very small potatoes military base.  It was a P.O.W. camp during WWII, and after that, mostly a National Guard training facility.  I bet there are quite a few tons of lead on that base's firing range berm, and behind it.  And then there is Fort Hood, another two hours away.  THAT is a big cahonies base.  I shot a match there once, and there are pieces of artillery shells scattered there.  There were actually signs saying something like, "Do not pick up any spent munitions."  Camp Mabry in Austin, and several bases around San Antonio.  And they have all been there a long time, and have firing ranges of course.  A dear old pal of mine was stationed at Ft. Hood during the late fifties, and he and another officer were doing an unimportant patrol (killing time) at a drop zone area where a training drop exercise had been recently conducted.  They found most of a howitzer planted barrel first into the ground.  Obviously some type of major malfunction had occurred.  MM

Re: Non lead bullets
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2018, 03:20:15 AM »
"Stuck" was a poor choice of a word on my part. I should have said "hooked"  I am not a exclusive user of non lead bullets, either. They just work for me.    :)

Re: Non lead bullets
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2018, 04:40:13 AM »
I have actually had very good success with Barnes TTSX bullets in all of my rifles. Yes, they are picky about how you load them, and you have to put in a little work. I have found though, maybe a fluke, If I load 1 full grain under max, that seems to give me around a 1 inch group. Like I said, maybe just a fluke, but that is what I have found.

I still like to taylor my loads for the best accuracy though. Fun to experiment just a bit expensive. It can pay off though!



« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 04:42:43 AM by klong67 »
Ken 
Respect the game, respect the hunt.

zonie

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Re: Non lead bullets
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2018, 09:14:50 AM »
I'm kind of a bullet freak to begin with mainly I find it interesting and have friends still making bullets and the equipment to make bullets.   One of our friends owns Frontier bullets in South Africa,  their Spartan line of bullets are 100 percent copper monolithic rifle bullets, along the same lines as Barnes or it could be the other way around, anyway if you measure the hollow point depth of the older Barnes TSX bullets you will find how shallow their HP depth is, unless they have changed something,  whereas the Spartan bullets have a much deeper hollow point,  and the driving band relief cuts are different.   Both make for  how the bullets opens up/expands and how far out the driving bands extends out of the case when hand loaded to a specific rifles throat/leade.  No doubt the design is different.  One of the reasons the TTSX bullets were designed for faster more reliable expansion IMO.  That's not a bad thing it's a learning curve with any new product.  In general terms with any brand of bullets  what are their limits, good points and bad points.  one big issue for bullet makers is how to make bullets to work in a variety of rifles /calibers and velocities/ranges,  and the game animal to be used for , or target application.  Do you want a bullet that expands on smaller thin skinned game such as deer or do you want a bullet that drives deep & still expands  such as elk ?  Where you are hunting and terrain/vegetation types will make a difference on bullet choices   There are always very specific bullets for varmits and dangerous game but that's another subject.  This is how anal I can get when testing bullets I probably have 30 boxes of different types or weights of 25 cal bullets on the locker other calibers I'm not quite as anal but a lot of different types and styles also.   My primary concern is decent accuracy along with bullet performance  that flat get's the job done under most circumstances for a specific animal type.  I'm not going to say we are going to go use a 243 on my wife up coming trophy deer hunt the deer are too big, the ranges too long, for  any 243 imo.  There are better choices for us to choose from.  I don't use my M1A which I have loaded with match bullets it wouldn't  be a good choice it's great for punching paper and for war so I'm not terribly worried about game killing bullet performance per say, we have better weapons choices for what we hunt and the way we hunt.   The only reason I'm going to load up monolithics for this up coming hunt is because of the Condor  area we will be hunting in, if there wasn't any Condors there I wouldn't use them, I have better choices for thin skinned deer,  elk on the other hand I do like the mono's but rarely use them anymore,  I find at the longest ranges and the better controlled expansion bullets are good enough for my older age  capabilities.     
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 09:33:10 AM by zonie »

Re: Non lead bullets
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2018, 12:10:11 PM »
Since the only thing I have hunted with the TSX and TTSX are hogs, I may be a bit biased. They do behave like the ads say. I haven't recovered any but by the exit hole they certainly expanded.  I am convinced a hog is considerably tougher than any deer I ever taken.  I agree with Klong on loads, too.   ;D 

Stacy

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Re: Non lead bullets
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2018, 10:04:40 PM »
Consider me hooked on em. I've been using them in 338 WM since the late 1990s and have taken Blacktail deer, caribou, goat, caribou, moose, black bear and brown bears with em. Sheep are my nemesis and one day a nice Dall ram will fall to my 225 grain Barnes TTSX.   

Re: Non lead bullets
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2018, 02:17:16 PM »
The lead issue is confused by anti hunters. It occurs in the soil naturally. I learned a ton about lead exposure at work for the Telco. We used it and were exposed for years.   In any case, my most consistently accurate hunting rifle loves the TSX.  My 7mm WSM model 70 is just a tad over 1/2 moa with a 140gr. TSX. If I got offered almost any hunt in this country, I would take that rifle and load. My single most accurate load in my target .338 Lapua Mag is a 280gr. Barnes. I'm still trying to beat the factory 250gr. Norma (3/8" at 100yds.) Just spent some time this afternoon loading 123gr. TSX in 7.62X39 with IMR4198.  :)