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7mm

7mm
« on: September 15, 2018, 07:19:01 PM »
given a 7 mm in the magnum ,what are your thoughts for its use on elk at long range,up to say 1000 yards as shone on the tv shows long range pursuit and best of the west plus extreme outer limits.i am told that it does not put them down like a 30 cal.
gary b

Re: 7mm
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2018, 07:24:39 PM »
My thoughts are that if you don't consistently shoot sub-minute groups out that far, you shouldn't shoot at an animal that far. If you're not at the range, practicing at and beyond those distances, you shouldn't shoot at an animal that far. You owe it to the animal to make a killing shot and recover the animal.
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dubyam

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Re: 7mm
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2018, 08:00:19 PM »
My thoughts are that if you don't consistently shoot sub-minute groups out that far, you shouldn't shoot at an animal that far. If you're not at the range, practicing at and beyond those distances, you shouldn't shoot at an animal that far. You owe it to the animal to make a killing shot and recover the animal.

Yep. When you can hit a minute of angle or less at 1000, after doing windspronts for 2min, consistently, you're ready, personally. As for the rifle, the reality is, you're going to need to shoot the heaviest bullets your barrel will stabilize (175gr or heavier). Even then, the reality is, you're not shooting the best option for game at that distance. Heck, reality says you're not shooting at a range which is ethical for all but a select few hunters. Don't let the TV shows fool you. They don't show all the prep the successful guys do, nor do they show much in the way of failures at those distances. I've never watched these shows so I can't speak to what they really show you.
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Re: 7mm
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2018, 08:29:33 PM »
I have watched those shows but no longer do so. I have seen almost as many bad shot placements as good. IMHO even though they practice shooting a lot I think they would be better off practicing their hunting skills. I hunt in some of those areas ( Oregon mostly) and have needed to take a shot beyond 250 yards, that includes elk. I hunt with a 7mm Rem Mag using 160 grain Accubonds and at 250 yards it is plenty good. I do not shoot past 400 yards at large game and this load will do what is needed. If you can not practice at the distance you think you will hunt, you will be doing a disservice to the game you are hunting. No disrespect intended, but I have seen too many hunters think they can shoot that far by practicing at 100-200 yards. That does not work. 

224KING

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Re: 7mm
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2018, 06:37:18 AM »
 IMHO even though they practice shooting a lot I think they would be better off practicing their hunting skills.





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Re: 7mm
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2018, 06:50:10 AM »
The flight time of the bullet at those distances allow too much time for a critter to move, IMO. 

danno50

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Re: 7mm
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2018, 08:09:53 AM »
Yep. When you can hit a minute of angle or less at 1000, after doing windspronts for 2min, consistently, you're ready, personally. As for the rifle, the reality is, you're going to need to shoot the heaviest bullets your barrel will stabilize (175gr or heavier). Even then, the reality is, you're not shooting the best option for game at that distance. Heck, reality says you're not shooting at a range which is ethical for all but a select few hunters. Don't let the TV shows fool you. They don't show all the prep the successful guys do, nor do they show much in the way of failures at those distances. I've never watched these shows so I can't speak to what they really show you.

I agree with Duby, and add that proficiency doesn't always equate to ethicalness. Accuracy, bullet choice and performance, impact velocity, energy and enough bullet mass to break through bones and still create enough damage to the vital area so the animal drops in its tracks, or can only travel a short distance due to the trauma caused by the shot. Thats a lot to consider at 1000 yards, and as Duby mentioned "a range which is ethical for all but a select few hunters." Most hunters are a serious group when the season opens and know when to shoot and when not to shoot. (a good hunter knows when to pass up a shot) Moreover at 1000 yards you need to have the best optics available. Spotting scope, range finder, GPS (to try and pinpoint where the animal was when you shot in the event you have to track)and rifle scope that are Reliable, Dependable, Consistent, and Clear in all weathers.  Understanding wind drift, and bullet drop add to the calculation. You'll spend thousands of dollars and invest countless hours shooting for effect and getting to understand your optics. Not for me. I also think the Long Range shooting shows on tv do a disservice to the hunting community, especially those new to hunting. I think 1000 yard shooting should be recreational, and kept to paper targets, metal targets and varmints. Sorry about the rant, just another opinion.
DosEquisShooter

Re: 7mm
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2018, 08:38:39 AM »
I've taken a fair number of elk over the years, and have been on just as many or more elk hunts being a guide or family hunts. I can honestly tell you, none of those elk we taken was shot over 450 yards. It always amuses me, when I hear people trying to bullsh$t me, that you cant never get elk unless you can shoot 1000 yards. Most of them are just too lazy to really hunt. I've taken elk with rifle from 243 to 375 h&h, and about every thing in between, and unless you do a head shot, spine shot, or a shoulder shot with a large bullet, you are rarely going to knock them down on the spot. The 7mm mag will work fine on elk with good bullets at reasonable hunting distances.

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zonie

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Re: 7mm
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2018, 08:55:12 AM »
Carskinner is absolutely correct !!!   Accuracy is king,  just for argument sake any of the 7 mm mags are fully capable of taking an elk at 1K and whether it's less capable than the big 30's is debatable.  There are people out there that can make these shots now whether it's ethical or not is up to that person.  Too many things can go wrong at those distances and all bad for the animal.  What does Trump say Fake News  don't believe every thing you hear and see on TV or anywhere else for that matter imo.  Tongue and cheek here   my suggestion take that 7mag and step it off at 1000 yds and all ranges in between,   start shooting and when a person can hit a 9 " pie plate 100 percent of that time under all conditions,  wind, weather, angles, etc  then they might be ready to attempt  hunting these really long ranges,  barring the animal doesn't decide to move the instant the shot is touched off, and how often is that going to happen 100 percent of the time for the time of flight for the bullet to impact,  like never  ?  These  people are taking a chance at these ranges.  Normally we as a family use 270 win's and 30-06 on elk out to about 400 yds or so and they all work.   A comparison could be made  the 308 would be just as good as either cartridge and they would be right and here's why.  Accuracy aside and how well a person shoots, we don't know how  fast a persons rifle shoots regardless of caliber mentioned,  we don't know the bullets  BC's ,   we don't know the bullets construction, etc.   I have 270 Winchesters & 06's  that shoot way slower than other like calibers we own with the same load data, and to be honest I don't see any difference in performance out to reasonable hunting ranges on elk AS LONG AS YOU HIT IT RIGHT.  you hit it wrong it doesn't matter how big the magnum is ,  it's all bad at that point.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 09:08:10 AM by zonie »

PARA45

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Re: 7mm
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2018, 09:44:25 AM »
+1 on all of he above comments.  I do not believe in those shows, and they give you a false sense of how easy it is to shoot at 1000+ yds, by just turning a couple of knobs.  Those shows never show you, how many times they have not found an animal, or how long that animal ran before dying from a bad shot.  These wanabe snipers are just that.  Snipers shoot thousands and thousands of rounds down range, and go through a rigorous academic training, not the one weekend class given by these gun manufacturers.  Truthfully, I turn the channel when those shows are on the hunting channels.  We are all hunters here, and we hunt and respect the animals we hunt.

Get your rifle set up with great optics, and develop a great load, and go hunt the animal.  If he gets away, think of how fun it was trying to sneak up on them.  If you get the animal, think of how fun it was to outsmart him on his own turf. 

eford

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Re: 7mm
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2018, 12:09:38 PM »
Everyone ought to come up with a reasonable distance they believe they will need to shoot to make a clean kill. It might not be a dead-right-there shot. It might not even be more than 250 yards but it ought to be at a distance the bullet will have good penetration to the vital areas.

Making a good shot has to be emphasized but no more than getting as close as possible. I cannot invision a situation where I have to shoot over 600 yards. A shot over 400 yards is rare where I hunt but certainly possible if you know what you are doing and you’re sending the right kind of bullet accurately.

My son used his very accurate and fairly heavy 308 Win to make a sub 5” group at 1,000 yards. The wind was moving his bullets all over the place until it stopped and he hit the target. The next two shots were fired quickly before the wind came up again. I think at 1,000 yards there is way too much unknown about the wind, good visibility and an animal moving enough to either miss it or worse, wound it.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 03:11:18 PM by eford »
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Re: 7mm
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2018, 12:51:07 PM »
Regardless of distance I choose 7mm over 30. ;D

Re: 7mm
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2018, 05:04:51 PM »
Just about every one of those shows are trying to sell you their product.

Just about every one of those 500+ yard shots that I see on TV, I say to myself "A good hunter could cut that distance in at least half."

Over the years I've killed elk with both 7mm and 30 caliber rifles.  My 1st choice is 30.  8)
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Re: 7mm
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2018, 06:45:18 PM »
Dad always told me to "make your shot count."  There are too many variables with targets past 400 yards that come into play, and I would really grieve if I shot off the hind leg of a deer at beyond that distance, because I did not make my shot count.  I would limit targets at over 400 yards to, varmints, feral pigs, paper, tree stumps, big white rocks, and gongs.  If you make a bad shot on any of those, it is not a big deal.  If you are out shooting with a buddy or two, and see a big white rock at seven hundred yards, see who can hit it first, and have a good time.  Whomever hits it first, pat him on the back for being a great shot.  If you miss, no harm, no foul.  I myself would not "experiment" on game animals for long range target practice.  Hearing a gong "clang" at eight hundred yards gives you a satisfying feeling; watching a deer crawl off with a shot off leg, I would think, does not.  MM 

Re: 7mm
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2018, 07:15:54 AM »
I am sick of folks saying, "Coyotes need love too". Hunting is not a video game. GJ