Spike Camp

Rifle help

Rifle help
« on: September 29, 2018, 02:58:49 PM »
I purchased the rifle new from a weatherby dealer. The rifle is chambered in 6.5-300wby weathermark. Scope is a Zeiss Conquest HD5 3-15x50 with Talley light weight rings. I went to zero the rifle and could not get on paper. Finally tried bore sighting again and hit steel in the lower left corner. I made the correct adjustments and was still 1 1/2in off from center. I completely ran out of windage. I tried three different scope rings with the same results. Crosshairs to the left and no more windage to adjust. Lastly i tried a scope that had zeroed perfectly on a weatherby vanguard and the crosshairs still align to the left of the intended target. What are you guys suggesting?

Re: Rifle help
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2018, 05:46:56 PM »
I purchased the rifle new from a weatherby dealer. The rifle is chambered in 6.5-300wby weathermark. Scope is a Zeiss Conquest HD5 3-15x50 with Talley light weight rings. I went to zero the rifle and could not get on paper. Finally tried bore sighting again and hit steel in the lower left corner. I made the correct adjustments and was still 1 1/2in off from center. I completely ran out of windage. I tried three different scope rings with the same results. Crosshairs to the left and no more windage to adjust. Lastly i tried a scope that had zeroed perfectly on a weatherby vanguard and the crosshairs still align to the left of the intended target. What are you guys suggesting?
I'm chuckling because I've been there and done that. Your problem is.... Your front and rear bases are not level to each other. Why, because you got Remington 700 bases. They look like they fit but the crown of the forward part of the receiver is not the same so the base seats to one side or the other. Two things you can do. Bed the bases in JB Weld and level them to each other without tightening the screws. Once the JB Weld has cured for 24 hours, go ahead and torque them to 15 inch lbs. Warne makes a great 1913 rail but it also fits the 700 so I went with the Night Force rail that Midway USA sells. It's Product #: 570261. No where on the packaging does it say it fits a Remington 700 and it fit my rifle perfectly. It also solved the problem. As a side note, I was sure it was my scope so I sent it in for repair and they said there was nothing wrong with it. That's what prompted me to look at the bases.
Steve
Lifetime NRA Member
Retired in the Nevada high desert and loving life.

Re: Rifle help
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2018, 06:18:13 PM »
I purchased the rifle new from a weatherby dealer. The rifle is chambered in 6.5-300wby weathermark. Scope is a Zeiss Conquest HD5 3-15x50 with Talley light weight rings. I went to zero the rifle and could not get on paper. Finally tried bore sighting again and hit steel in the lower left corner. I made the correct adjustments and was still 1 1/2in off from center. I completely ran out of windage. I tried three different scope rings with the same results. Crosshairs to the left and no more windage to adjust. Lastly i tried a scope that had zeroed perfectly on a weatherby vanguard and the crosshairs still align to the left of the intended target. What are you guys suggesting?
I'm chuckling because I've been there and done that. Your problem is.... Your front and rear bases are not level to each other. Why, because you got Remington 700 bases. They look like they fit but the crown of the forward part of the receiver is not the same so the base seats to one side or the other. Two things you can do. Bed the bases in JB Weld and level them to each other without tightening the screws. Once the JB Weld has cured for 24 hours, go ahead and torque them to 15 inch lbs. Warne makes a great 1913 rail but it also fits the 700 so I went with the Night Force rail that Midway USA sells. It's Product #: 570261. No where on the packaging does it say it fits a Remington 700 and it fit my rifle perfectly. It also solved the problem. As a side note, I was sure it was my scope so I sent it in for repair and they said there was nothing wrong with it. That's what prompted me to look at the bases.

you really think its the rings... i tried multiple rings with the same results. all the rings i have used and tried say weatherby on them

dubyam

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Re: Rifle help
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2018, 07:35:11 AM »
Base height isn't the issue. The issue is windage, not elevation. Swapping to a different base with the idea the front and rear bridge heights are off won't do anything to fix a windage issue. Moreover, since I already know at least one set of the rings/bases are Talley, having spoken to Oscar about this issue, the idea they are off because they're 700 bases doesn't hold water.

Oscar, I'm not sure what to say at this point. The videos you sent me looked pretty aligned as far as the taped holes and the bore. But what you're experiencing is so consistent it bears having the rifle checked by Weatherby, at this point, I think. Something is off. Consistently off with multiple scopes and multiple sets (and brands) of rings/bases says neither the scope nor the rings/bases are to blame. That only leaves the rifle, though the video you sent me doesn't appear to show a variation on the alignment with the rifle, which I'd think we could see. I'm at a loss as to what the underlying issue is, and will be following the process with you to see what the ultimate answer is. It's a puzzler, for sure.
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

Re: Rifle help
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2018, 09:16:57 AM »
Base height isn't the issue. The issue is windage, not elevation. Swapping to a different base with the idea the front and rear bridge heights are off won't do anything to fix a windage issue. Moreover, since I already know at least one set of the rings/bases are Talley, having spoken to Oscar about this issue, the idea they are off because they're 700 bases doesn't hold water.

Oscar, I'm not sure what to say at this point. The videos you sent me looked pretty aligned as far as the taped holes and the bore. But what you're experiencing is so consistent it bears having the rifle checked by Weatherby, at this point, I think. Something is off. Consistently off with multiple scopes and multiple sets (and brands) of rings/bases says neither the scope nor the rings/bases are to blame. That only leaves the rifle, though the video you sent me doesn't appear to show a variation on the alignment with the rifle, which I'd think we could see. I'm at a loss as to what the underlying issue is, and will be following the process with you to see what the ultimate answer is. It's a puzzler, for sure.

so i tried once again the leupold scope from my vanguard. i did the mirror test prior to mounting. it showed the leupold reticle shadow a little high and a hair right. perfect. mounted it on the weathermark and ensure the rings were straight. boom the leupold reticle was extreme left of the aim of the bore for boresighting.


PARA45

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Re: Rifle help
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2018, 09:30:35 AM »
I've spoken to Jr quite extensively about this issue.  He called Talley, and Talley send him a new set of rings, and those new rings still didn't align the scope.  Tough to have two/three bad sets of rings from Talley, but everything is possible.  I've told jr that I think it is the rifle, and to send it back.

BTW Oscar, you may have to wait quite a bit since Weatherby is on the move, and I'm not sure if they are doing any type of repairs either from Kali or Wyoming.  So, get a hold of Weatherby, send them your rifle when they tell you do so, and be extra patient with them.  I can assure you that Weatherby will make it right. 

Re: Rifle help
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2018, 09:46:48 AM »
I also think it is time to send it back.Maybe you can talk your Loving Dad into letting you use his this hunting season. ;D
Roger
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Re: Rifle help
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2018, 10:57:13 AM »
I also think it is time to send it back.Maybe you can talk your Loving Dad into letting you use his this hunting season. ;D

Oh, to be sure, Oscar, Jr., has a very fine Accumark in 270Wby which will cover all his needs this season! 😁😁😁
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

Re: Rifle help
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2018, 11:40:44 AM »
Everybody I told about this said it couldn't be true. I had the same problem with my McMillan G30 Dynasty 270 WSM. There is only one obscure company that makes a rail for that and it's expensive but it fixed the problem. You all can say what you want, I know because it happened to me not once, but twice before I figured it out.

If you are using 1 piece rings/bases like the Tally it's hard to check them for level. If you use 1913 or Weaver two piece bases and detachable rings, then put the rear on first. Level the rifle and then put the front on and check it for level to the rear. Any difference is unacceptable.

Here's a tip for the best way to mount a scope.

1. Field strip the rifle.
2. Put the barrel and action in a gun vise and put a level on the flat of the recoil lug. Bring it to level and tighten the vise.
3. If you have a proper mounting kit, clamp the barrel level to the barrel so that it's level and then double check with a level at the lug. Make any adjustments as needed. The barrel level is now your reference.
4. Put the rear base on and torque it to spec (typically 15 in lbs). Use a level to check it against the barrel level. If it's out then you many need to bed it. Normally, the rear will be on the money.
5. Put the front base on and torque to spec. Check it for level. If you're good then proceed with attaching your scope. If it's out then you may need to bed it.

Unless you take your rifle to a gunsmith that understands the proper way to mount a scope, there's a chance that your scope is not going to be mounted correctly and you may experience odd over adjustment issues.

There, I told you how to find or verify the issue and how to correct it. Take it to the bank or throw it in the trash, it matters not much to me either way.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 11:42:34 AM by sschefer »
Steve
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Retired in the Nevada high desert and loving life.

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Re: Rifle help
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2018, 08:11:11 PM »
Either of the front or rear holes in the action are not drilled in line with the barrel
Sorry... Yesterday was the last and final day for any and all complaints whatsoever.

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dubyam

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Re: Rifle help
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2018, 08:31:11 PM »
Everybody I told about this said it couldn't be true. I had the same problem with my McMillan G30 Dynasty 270 WSM. There is only one obscure company that makes a rail for that and it's expensive but it fixed the problem. You all can say what you want, I know because it happened to me not once, but twice before I figured it out.

If you are using 1 piece rings/bases like the Tally it's hard to check them for level. If you use 1913 or Weaver two piece bases and detachable rings, then put the rear on first. Level the rifle and then put the front on and check it for level to the rear. Any difference is unacceptable.

Here's a tip for the best way to mount a scope.

1. Field strip the rifle.
2. Put the barrel and action in a gun vise and put a level on the flat of the recoil lug. Bring it to level and tighten the vise.
3. If you have a proper mounting kit, clamp the barrel level to the barrel so that it's level and then double check with a level at the lug. Make any adjustments as needed. The barrel level is now your reference.
4. Put the rear base on and torque it to spec (typically 15 in lbs). Use a level to check it against the barrel level. If it's out then you many need to bed it. Normally, the rear will be on the money.
5. Put the front base on and torque to spec. Check it for level. If you're good then proceed with attaching your scope. If it's out then you may need to bed it.

Unless you take your rifle to a gunsmith that understands the proper way to mount a scope, there's a chance that your scope is not going to be mounted correctly and you may experience odd over adjustment issues.

There, I told you how to find or verify the issue and how to correct it. Take it to the bank or throw it in the trash, it matters not much to me either way.


If the issue were elevation related, this (or a rail) might be a valid resolution. But its windage. The front and rear bases could be grossly out of alignment (by .050" or more, which equates to about 50moa, for reference) and it wont affect how far left or right the rifle impacts versus the point of aim.
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

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Re: Rifle help
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2018, 03:05:21 AM »
If you get the Leupold two piece bases with the windage screws on the back base you can adjust to align with the barrel
Mike

Re: Rifle help
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2018, 08:12:11 AM »
Like Mike said, you can try the Leupold  two piece bases with the rear windage screw, that might work out for you, but  personally, I probably would return it to get fixed, as I'm not a big fan of Leupold bases.

Rob
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Re: Rifle help
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2018, 09:12:53 AM »
Everybody I told about this said it couldn't be true. I had the same problem with my McMillan G30 Dynasty 270 WSM. There is only one obscure company that makes a rail for that and it's expensive but it fixed the problem. You all can say what you want, I know because it happened to me not once, but twice before I figured it out.

If you are using 1 piece rings/bases like the Tally it's hard to check them for level. If you use 1913 or Weaver two piece bases and detachable rings, then put the rear on first. Level the rifle and then put the front on and check it for level to the rear. Any difference is unacceptable.

Here's a tip for the best way to mount a scope.

1. Field strip the rifle.
2. Put the barrel and action in a gun vise and put a level on the flat of the recoil lug. Bring it to level and tighten the vise.
3. If you have a proper mounting kit, clamp the barrel level to the barrel so that it's level and then double check with a level at the lug. Make any adjustments as needed. The barrel level is now your reference.
4. Put the rear base on and torque it to spec (typically 15 in lbs). Use a level to check it against the barrel level. If it's out then you many need to bed it. Normally, the rear will be on the money.
5. Put the front base on and torque to spec. Check it for level. If you're good then proceed with attaching your scope. If it's out then you may need to bed it.

Unless you take your rifle to a gunsmith that understands the proper way to mount a scope, there's a chance that your scope is not going to be mounted correctly and you may experience odd over adjustment issues.

There, I told you how to find or verify the issue and how to correct it. Take it to the bank or throw it in the trash, it matters not much to me either way.


If the issue were elevation related, this (or a rail) might be a valid resolution. But its windage. The front and rear bases could be grossly out of alignment (by .050" or more, which equates to about 50moa, for reference) and it wont affect how far left or right the rifle impacts versus the point of aim.


Yep, that's what everybody say's until I prove them wrong. Consider that a 1/4 bubble is 1/4in in 12. If your front base is canted even the slightest, windage will be affected. If you have proper scope mounting tools you can see it, if you don't you're just winging it.
Steve
Lifetime NRA Member
Retired in the Nevada high desert and loving life.

Re: Rifle help
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2018, 11:12:34 AM »
I called Weatherby and they said that three different rings shouldn't cause that. They advised to send it in.