Spike Camp

Rifle help

Blackbear3

  • *****
  • 1988
  • In God We Trust!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle help
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2018, 12:43:34 PM »
Hopefully the turn around time isn't to long, but at least you may get an answer.
We stand for the Flag, and we kneel for the fallen!!!

Doug-NRA Life Member

257 Shooter

  • *****
  • 664
  • 257 Shooter
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle help
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2018, 04:54:46 PM »
Dubyam is right. Ring elevation has nothing to do with windage. Extreme long range rigs will have rear bases deliberately higher than the front to get more elevation within the adjustment range of the scope.

What these scope "leveling" tools actually do is get the vertical line of your scope reticle perpendicular to the axis of the rifle's bore. When you do this, you prevent canting of the rifle provided you hold the rifle with the scope reticle straight. When the rifle is canted it has the effect of making your shots hit right or left. The farther you shoot beyond your zero range, the more left or right the shots will go.

Not sure what the real issue is in this case. I wish him the best of luck.

.257

  • *****
  • 1002
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle help
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2018, 05:37:29 PM »
Like Mike said, you can try the Leupold  two piece bases with the rear windage screw, that might work out for you, but  personally, I probably would return it to get fixed, as I'm not a big fan of Leupold bases.

Rob

I agree, l was trying to give a fix for hunting season and than send it in. All though l have those bases on my .257 with no problems.
Also the first 2 scopes l had on that rifle everything was fine. Put the 3 one on and had to adjust the windage screws. All l did was take the top half of the rings off. Makes no sense to me, but it shoots the same
Mike

PARA45

  • *****
  • 3470
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle help
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2018, 05:46:07 PM »
I spoke to Jr today, and it may end up taking up to 8 months to get his rifle back. 

Does anyone know, if Weatherby sends out a prepaid label and box?  I want to say I read that somewhere here, but for the life of me I can't remember.  If anyone remembers, please let Jr and I know about it.  Thanks!!!

Re: Rifle help
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2018, 08:07:52 PM »
Like Mike said, you can try the Leupold  two piece bases with the rear windage screw, that might work out for you, but  personally, I probably would return it to get fixed, as I'm not a big fan of Leupold bases.

Rob

I agree, l was trying to give a fix for hunting season and than send it in. All though l have those bases on my .257 with no problems.
Also the first 2 scopes l had on that rifle everything was fine. Put the 3 one on and had to adjust the windage screws. All l did was take the top half of the rings off. Makes no sense to me, but it shoots the same

I agree, if they will work and gets you though hunting season, I used to used those leupold 2 piece bases with the windage screws on quite a few rifles, until I missed the biggest mule deer buck in my life with my 300 when I didn't relieze one of the windage screws came lose and the back ring was lose. It soured me on those since then  ::)  ::)

Rob
cfp-223REM
accumark-223Rem
ultralite-240 Wby
synthetic-240 Wby
synthetic-257 Wby
ultralite-270 Wby
fibermark-270 Wby
accumark-270 Wby
accumark-7mm Wby
stainless-300 Wby
fibermark-300Wby
accumark-30378 Wby
fibermark-340 Wby
accumark-338378 Wby
custom-375 Wby
DGR-378 Wby
DGR-416 Wby
custom DGR-460 Wby

dubyam

  • *****
  • 4776
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle help
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2018, 08:31:13 PM »
Everybody I told about this said it couldn't be true. I had the same problem with my McMillan G30 Dynasty 270 WSM. There is only one obscure company that makes a rail for that and it's expensive but it fixed the problem. You all can say what you want, I know because it happened to me not once, but twice before I figured it out.

If you are using 1 piece rings/bases like the Tally it's hard to check them for level. If you use 1913 or Weaver two piece bases and detachable rings, then put the rear on first. Level the rifle and then put the front on and check it for level to the rear. Any difference is unacceptable.

Here's a tip for the best way to mount a scope.

1. Field strip the rifle.
2. Put the barrel and action in a gun vise and put a level on the flat of the recoil lug. Bring it to level and tighten the vise.
3. If you have a proper mounting kit, clamp the barrel level to the barrel so that it's level and then double check with a level at the lug. Make any adjustments as needed. The barrel level is now your reference.
4. Put the rear base on and torque it to spec (typically 15 in lbs). Use a level to check it against the barrel level. If it's out then you many need to bed it. Normally, the rear will be on the money.
5. Put the front base on and torque to spec. Check it for level. If you're good then proceed with attaching your scope. If it's out then you may need to bed it.

Unless you take your rifle to a gunsmith that understands the proper way to mount a scope, there's a chance that your scope is not going to be mounted correctly and you may experience odd over adjustment issues.

There, I told you how to find or verify the issue and how to correct it. Take it to the bank or throw it in the trash, it matters not much to me either way.


If the issue were elevation related, this (or a rail) might be a valid resolution. But its windage. The front and rear bases could be grossly out of alignment (by .050" or more, which equates to about 50moa, for reference) and it wont affect how far left or right the rifle impacts versus the point of aim.


Yep, that's what everybody say's until I prove them wrong. Consider that a 1/4 bubble is 1/4in in 12. If your front base is canted even the slightest, windage will be affected. If you have proper scope mounting tools you can see it, if you don't you're just winging it.


Having mounted dozens of scopes, using the proper tools (including a torque wrench, reticle leveler, and a series of custom developed straight edges, guides, and alignment fixtures, on everything from handguns to shotguns to black powder to high powered rifles, I'm pretty sure I can say without much doubt I know what I'm doing mounting optics. And what you're proposing isn't the issue in this instance, I am positive. And in fact, a mere elevation difference between the front and rear rings isn't remotely going to affect windage. It is physically impossible. I have a rifle which I've purposefully chanted the scope down to gain elevation at longer ranges,  and it has zero windage issues.

Moreover, it's as easy as can be to check the Talley Lightweight rings for level. Simply install the front and rear bases, torqued to spec, and place a machinist's square across the lower ring halves. If you want to get really technical, you could use a feeler gauge to measure beyond even the roughly 50 microns of squareness provided by a decent machinist's square, but I think that's going beyond the tolerance of the scope tube for straightness.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 08:39:27 PM by dubyam »
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

Blackbear3

  • *****
  • 1988
  • In God We Trust!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle help
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2018, 08:34:32 PM »
Oscar, when I sent in my Vanguard many years ago they did send me a box with labels and shipping instructions. I  don't know if that's still the case??
We stand for the Flag, and we kneel for the fallen!!!

Doug-NRA Life Member

Re: Rifle help
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2018, 07:33:28 PM »
Everybody I told about this said it couldn't be true. I had the same problem with my McMillan G30 Dynasty 270 WSM. There is only one obscure company that makes a rail for that and it's expensive but it fixed the problem. You all can say what you want, I know because it happened to me not once, but twice before I figured it out.

If you are using 1 piece rings/bases like the Tally it's hard to check them for level. If you use 1913 or Weaver two piece bases and detachable rings, then put the rear on first. Level the rifle and then put the front on and check it for level to the rear. Any difference is unacceptable.

Here's a tip for the best way to mount a scope.

1. Field strip the rifle.
2. Put the barrel and action in a gun vise and put a level on the flat of the recoil lug. Bring it to level and tighten the vise.
3. If you have a proper mounting kit, clamp the barrel level to the barrel so that it's level and then double check with a level at the lug. Make any adjustments as needed. The barrel level is now your reference.
4. Put the rear base on and torque it to spec (typically 15 in lbs). Use a level to check it against the barrel level. If it's out then you many need to bed it. Normally, the rear will be on the money.
5. Put the front base on and torque to spec. Check it for level. If you're good then proceed with attaching your scope. If it's out then you may need to bed it.

Unless you take your rifle to a gunsmith that understands the proper way to mount a scope, there's a chance that your scope is not going to be mounted correctly and you may experience odd over adjustment issues.

There, I told you how to find or verify the issue and how to correct it. Take it to the bank or throw it in the trash, it matters not much to me either way.


If the issue were elevation related, this (or a rail) might be a valid resolution. But its windage. The front and rear bases could be grossly out of alignment (by .050" or more, which equates to about 50moa, for reference) and it wont affect how far left or right the rifle impacts versus the point of aim.


Yep, that's what everybody say's until I prove them wrong. Consider that a 1/4 bubble is 1/4in in 12. If your front base is canted even the slightest, windage will be affected. If you have proper scope mounting tools you can see it, if you don't you're just winging it.


Having mounted dozens of scopes, using the proper tools (including a torque wrench, reticle leveler, and a series of custom developed straight edges, guides, and alignment fixtures, on everything from handguns to shotguns to black powder to high powered rifles, I'm pretty sure I can say without much doubt I know what I'm doing mounting optics. And what you're proposing isn't the issue in this instance, I am positive. And in fact, a mere elevation difference between the front and rear rings isn't remotely going to affect windage. It is physically impossible. I have a rifle which I've purposefully chanted the scope down to gain elevation at longer ranges,  and it has zero windage issues.

Moreover, it's as easy as can be to check the Talley Lightweight rings for level. Simply install the front and rear bases, torqued to spec, and place a machinist's square across the lower ring halves. If you want to get really technical, you could use a feeler gauge to measure beyond even the roughly 50 microns of squareness provided by a decent machinist's square, but I think that's going beyond the tolerance of the scope tube for straightness.

Ah now I see why you're so adamant. I'm not referring to being level in elevation. I'm speaking of being level left to right. If you lay a level across the rear base it will be level with your barrel reference level. If you place one across the front base, it will be out of level using either the rear base with a level on it or the barrel level.

Sorry, I assumed that everyone understood that he was talking about windage issues and running out of left windage during sight in. So can you see now how the front base needs to be level with the rear base in all directions. If the front base does not fit the crown of the receiver perfectly, it will go to one side or the other when you tighten it down. I've had them go as much as a 1/4 bubble but usually it's a 16th to and 8th max. if 1/8 bubble equals 1/8" in 12" then at 100 yards the rifle could shoot roughly 37" right. There's not enough windage adjustment on any scope to compensate for that.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 07:35:03 PM by sschefer »
What doesn't kill you will make you stronger, except bears. Bears will kill you...

dubyam

  • *****
  • 4776
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle help
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2018, 08:44:37 PM »
While I understand what you're saying, I've never experienced anything of that sort, in dozens of scopes mounted on dozens of rifles, of almost every make and model. Moreover, I'd add that three sets of rings and bases from two different manufacturers identically out of "level" exactly the same is statistically near impossibility.
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

Re: Rifle help
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2018, 07:17:14 PM »
While I understand what you're saying, I've never experienced anything of that sort, in dozens of scopes mounted on dozens of rifles, of almost every make and model. Moreover, I'd add that three sets of rings and bases from two different manufacturers identically out of "level" exactly the same is statistically near impossibility.

I don't know if he sent it in or not. Hopefully he did and hopefully he'll come back and tell us what they found.
What doesn't kill you will make you stronger, except bears. Bears will kill you...