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Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i

Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« on: December 01, 2018, 07:13:40 AM »
Hi Guys, I am new to this forum. I am at my wits end with this combo. I have a Weatherby Vanguard in .300 Weatherby with a laminated thumbhole stock. I previously had a Nikon Monarch Gold 2.5-10 x 50mm with Leopould 30mm rings with no issues. I purchased a Swarovski Z6i 3-18 with a ballistic turret and attempted to put it in the same lapped rings. I ran out of height adjustment with the shots still hitting 2" low at 100 yards. I looked at this forum and then purchased a set of Talley rings and bases for the Vanguard long action giving me the exact same result. I called Talley and they wanted me to send the rings to a gunsmith. Called Swarovski and they said I need a 20 moa base. Tally doesn't have one. I then purchased a set of Burris Tactical Signature rings and bases. I can now get to Zero but I can't use the ballistic turret because I am still at the end of the height adjustment with 40 moa inserts, -20 in front +20 in the rear.  I'm sick to my stomach with this mess!  Any help or suggestion would be greatly appreciated.
"He Who Fails To Be Better, Fails To Be Good"  Oliver Cromwell

Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2018, 08:16:56 AM »
I don't have any personal experience with that particular scope and the first thing that comes to mind is maybe the Swarovski scope is bad.  A second thing that comes to mind is you have the rings reversed.  It's hard for me to figure it out without having the rifle in front of me to work on it or even pictures to look at the set up. 
Nothing is better than a Weatherby, big bore magnum, or a Colt.

Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2018, 08:44:41 AM »
What I left out was that this is now the second scope. Sent the first one back to Cabela's and they had a new one drop shipped from Swarovski. I tried reversing the rings, reversing the bases all to no avail. I am by no means a neophyte when it comes to mounting scopes, however my past experience is when you have the right parts things generally work out. I'm pretty frustrated that I'm dealing with this for 2 months and I'm still in the same spot. I put the Nikon back on and it will bore sight perfectly. This "high end" Swarovski leaves little room for error in windage or elevation. I have an e-mail out to Burris because I am certainly not getting my 40moa of adjustment out of these rings. They are way higher than the Leopould or the Talleys when set up with standard 0moa rear, -5 in the front. Tried swapping rings front to back with no change in results. I'm fed up. 
"He Who Fails To Be Better, Fails To Be Good"  Oliver Cromwell

Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2018, 08:49:30 AM »
Do you have any friends who are close by that are well versed with mounting scopes that can take a look at it for you?  Can you post pictures of the rifle with close ups of the mounts and scope?  Seeing it would help me start to figure out what could be wrong.  Ultimately the best way for me to asses what's going in is to actually see the rifle and be able to work on it.
Nothing is better than a Weatherby, big bore magnum, or a Colt.

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Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2018, 09:18:08 AM »
I had a similar problem 40 years ago and just had the gunsmith put a shim between the scope and a ring. Can't say I would be happy in your situation after spending all this money and still not knowing why. Post some pictures, that might help someone here figure it out.
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Doug-NRA Life Member

Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2018, 09:29:25 AM »
OK, take a deep breath... Put the rings and bases back on correctly. Now go read through the Swarovski instructions and follow the part about setting up the zero stop carefully.  I have a two Swaro's a Z5 and Z5i that stumped me at first and I was holding under at 100 yards. The scope is setup from the factory with a zero stop set at 200 yards so if you want to zero at 100 yards, you need to readjust the zero stop to give you a 100 yard zero elevation. Depending on the BC of your bullet, you many need to do this adjustment again if you change to a different ammo.

Changing to a 20 moa set of rings will cause you too shoot higher at 100 yards not lower. When you add 20moa you raise the rear of the scope which places your scope objective looking 20moa down. This lowers your point of aim and raises your point of impact. They are for people that run out of up elevation not down.
Steve
Lifetime NRA Member
Retired in the Nevada high desert and loving life.

Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2018, 02:44:39 PM »
Steve, I am out of up adjustment and still hitting low. Making my ballistic turret worthless. Update, I took the rings off the gun and shipped them back to Midway. Burris has a torque spec on the ring to base screws of 35-70 inch pounds. From taking them on and off the gun so many times at 65 inch pounds the screws broke. I am exchanging them for medium height as I had 3/8 inch of space between the barrel and scope. The mediums will bring the scope to 1/8 inch off the barrel. Also expect to hear back from Burris tomorrow. Maybe I was sent the wrong rear base. I'm not one drop interested in shimming this. $700 gun and $2800 scope combo doesn't get gypsy rigged. The more parts used, the more weak links to cause problems over time. This scope only has 65" of vertical adjustment and 36" windage total. Not a lot in my opinion.
"He Who Fails To Be Better, Fails To Be Good"  Oliver Cromwell

Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2018, 04:08:03 PM »
I think you're headed in the right direction going down to medium height rings.  This will bring the scope down and closer to the barrel which should help you out because the higher the rings the higher your crosshairs are above the bore and the more adjustment you would need to bring your point of impact to the horizontal crosshair.
Nothing is better than a Weatherby, big bore magnum, or a Colt.

Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2018, 04:31:05 PM »
Steve, I am out of up adjustment and still hitting low. Making my ballistic turret worthless. Update, I took the rings off the gun and shipped them back to Midway. Burris has a torque spec on the ring to base screws of 35-70 inch pounds. From taking them on and off the gun so many times at 65 inch pounds the screws broke. I am exchanging them for medium height as I had 3/8 inch of space between the barrel and scope. The mediums will bring the scope to 1/8 inch off the barrel. Also expect to hear back from Burris tomorrow. Maybe I was sent the wrong rear base. I'm not one drop interested in shimming this. $700 gun and $2800 scope combo doesn't get gypsy rigged. The more parts used, the more weak links to cause problems over time. This scope only has 65" of vertical adjustment and 36" windage total. Not a lot in my opinion.
My suspiscion is that they are giving you Remington 700 bases. Rather than go into the details, just go online (Midway USA is pretty good) and order the NightForce rail for the Weatherby Vanguard.  If you want to put a 20 moa rail on they have those also. Once you have the rail on it, you can use any decent Picatinny style rings. I happen to like the Warne permanent (just means you can't move the scope from rifle to rifle easily), you could also use Leupold PRW's. Medium rings should allow the eyepiece to clear the rail so you can get good eye releif.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 04:32:46 PM by sschefer »
Steve
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Retired in the Nevada high desert and loving life.

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Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2018, 04:43:15 PM »
The Nikon worked in the Leupold rings, could you get a 20 moa Leupold base instead of changing everything.
Mike

Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2018, 06:34:13 PM »
I'm not sure about the Leopold ring but I have never been a fan of their rings. I'm looking forward to having a conversation with the people at Burris. I think they will have the solution. I really think I have the wrong bases. Just makes no sense to me that I put 40 moa of adjustment and I'm still not close to being able to use the turret. I'll report back tomorrow with my progress.
"He Who Fails To Be Better, Fails To Be Good"  Oliver Cromwell

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Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2018, 07:23:38 PM »
I think the bases are wrong.
Sorry... Yesterday was the last and final day for any and all complaints whatsoever.

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Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2018, 07:30:18 AM »
Update: I am also returning the Burris bases to Midway and ordered a nightforce 20 moa one piece base. I'm hoping one of these companies has figured this receiver out. This should give me a total of 60 moa vertical adjustment plus the 32 moa built into the scope. If this doesn't work, the scope will get returned for a nightforce or there may be a very pretty laminated thumb hole 300 Weatherby Vanguard for sale.
"He Who Fails To Be Better, Fails To Be Good"  Oliver Cromwell

Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2018, 08:39:01 AM »
Update: I am also returning the Burris bases to Midway and ordered a nightforce 20 moa one piece base. I'm hoping one of these companies has figured this receiver out. This should give me a total of 60 moa vertical adjustment plus the 32 moa built into the scope. If this doesn't work, the scope will get returned for a nightforce or there may be a very pretty laminated thumb hole 300 Weatherby Vanguard for sale.

Night force has it dialed in. I've put them on three Vanguards now. Just for future reference, you can go to your local auto parts store and get a .030 feeler gauge. .030 under the rear mount will give you the same results as a 20 MOA base. If you want more up elevation, you put it under the rear, if you want more down elevation you put it under the front. I'm telling you this to give you an idea of how the wrong bases can make things go wonky in a quick minute.
Steve
Lifetime NRA Member
Retired in the Nevada high desert and loving life.

Re: Vanguard will not zero with Swarovski Z6i
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2018, 11:13:31 AM »
Steve, thank you. That will be a last resort. The Night Force Base I'm hoping does the job. Probably should have gone with the NightForce scope too. This has turned out to be a fiasco. It's the principal now. I hate to lose!
"He Who Fails To Be Better, Fails To Be Good"  Oliver Cromwell