Spike Camp

Copper plated barrel

Copper plated barrel
« on: December 06, 2018, 08:44:55 AM »
I recently acquired a Mk V in .257 Wby.  Being a proud owner of my 3rd Wby I promptly loaded 10 rounds and went to the local rangecouldn't believe the 2 1/2 to 4 inch 3 shot groups I got.  I went home and ran some Montana Extreme Copper Killer solvent through the bore and was rewarded with patches that looked like denim.  During an all out cleaning session that ammonia based product caused my sinuses to drain like mad and I lost my voice.  I took advice from members on another forum and ordered Bore Tech CU 2 and resumed cleaning.

I'm beginning to think that this barrel had never been cleaned down to bare metal.  So, my question is, Is this barrel ruined?  Can it be saved by trying do do a barrel break in as though it were new?  Some have advocating me to "fire lap" the barrel.  Others suggest Dyna Bore now that it is down to bare metal.  Or should I just bite the bullet and drive to Sheridan and get a new barrel installed.

Any and all suggestions will be appreciated.

sschefer

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2018, 09:21:58 AM »
I recently acquired a Mk V in .257 Wby.  Being a proud owner of my 3rd Wby I promptly loaded 10 rounds and went to the local rangecouldn't believe the 2 1/2 to 4 inch 3 shot groups I got.  I went home and ran some Montana Extreme Copper Killer solvent through the bore and was rewarded with patches that looked like denim.  During an all out cleaning session that ammonia based product caused my sinuses to drain like mad and I lost my voice.  I took advice from members on another forum and ordered Bore Tech CU 2 and resumed cleaning.

I'm beginning to think that this barrel had never been cleaned down to bare metal.  So, my question is, Is this barrel ruined?  Can it be saved by trying do do a barrel break in as though it were new?  Some have advocating me to "fire lap" the barrel.  Others suggest Dyna Bore now that it is down to bare metal.  Or should I just bite the bullet and drive to Sheridan and get a new barrel installed.

Any and all suggestions will be appreciated.

Its not uncommon. It took me four days to clean a .257 barrel. You've done good. The final step is to have a bore scope run down it to check for any problems. A local gun shop might have one and do it for a small fee. If that comes back good then go shoot it. Barrel replacements are 6 months out right now and it will run about 500.00 when I last checked a month ago. I believe only the Admin functions are in Sheridan right now and the Gun Smithing side is still in Californina.

You can't just buy a barrel from Weatherby, you have to send the action in and they will fit it with a new barrel.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 09:24:18 AM by sschefer »

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2018, 09:30:38 AM »
After you have all the copper out then just take it out and shoot it and see how she does before doing anything else.
Roger
Faster horses,younger women,older whiskey,and more money.

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2018, 03:21:44 PM »
After you have all the copper out then just take it out and shoot it and see how she does before doing anything else.

+1

Rob
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sschefer

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2018, 04:54:11 PM »
While you guy's are probably right and it will shoot just fine, it may not and I'm not willing to tell someone that it's ok to shoot when the end result, even if remote, could be harmful. I also doubt there will be a problem and the bolt with it's 3 gas ports gives us a lot of protection. But still, there's that one in a million chance so I say, take it to a gun shop and pay 15.00 to have some one scope it and remove all doubt.

dubyam

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Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2018, 05:40:50 PM »
Roger is right. Copper in the bore is just fouling. Unless there is corrosion on the other parts of the gun (trigger mechanism, under the barrel/action where the stock covers it, etc.) There is no reason to believe there is anything wrong with it. Someone just didn't know how to clean it prior to you getting it. Heck, they probably thought it was shot out, and that's why they got rid of it.

My 300Wby came to me used. It was what I call a "Statue of Liberty" gun. The bore was nearly solid green with copper fouling. Took me a week of cleaning it a few hours every night to get it clean. First trip to the range, with basic handloads gave me 1MOA three shot groups. I've never looked back. That gun just gets better with age.

Go shoot your rifle. Theres nothing wrong with it.
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

sschefer

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2018, 10:05:44 AM »
Roger is right. Copper in the bore is just fouling. Unless there is corrosion on the other parts of the gun (trigger mechanism, under the barrel/action where the stock covers it, etc.) There is no reason to believe there is anything wrong with it. Someone just didn't know how to clean it prior to you getting it. Heck, they probably thought it was shot out, and that's why they got rid of it.

My 300Wby came to me used. It was what I call a "Statue of Liberty" gun. The bore was nearly solid green with copper fouling. Took me a week of cleaning it a few hours every night to get it clean. First trip to the range, with basic handloads gave me 1MOA three shot groups. I've never looked back. That gun just gets better with age.

Go shoot your rifle. Theres nothing wrong with it.

You may be right, but what if your wrong? It's so cheap and simple to know for sure, why would you not suggest the final check with a bore scope.

dubyam

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Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 02:57:48 PM »
For the same reason I wouldn't suggest you take your car to a mechanic to be checked out because the person you bought it from didn't wash it regularly. But if it makes you feel better, by all means take it to a gunsmith. Please let us know what the gunsmith says, also.
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2018, 08:15:30 AM »
Certain solvents can soak overnight. The 340 I bought was similar and I plugged the barrel and soaked several times with Eliminator.

The copper Barnes particay pre TSX was  a heavy fouler.

Bear in mind that a bare barrel may take a few shots to "settle" down. Anything up to 20 shots on some barrels but mostly 5 to 10.
I shoot cases with a belt because I feel the other cartridges need to pull their trousers up.

eford

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Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2018, 07:54:35 PM »
My two cents with is get as much copper out as you can by elbow grease and repeated cleaning. The copper is not likely to all come out in a day. Then, shoot it at 100 yards and determine how much better the groups look. While it may never be a sub 1” rifle, it can still be minute of deer accurate.
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Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2018, 04:10:41 PM »
Took the .257 out yesterday.  I had a few rounds I had loaded up for my .257 Vanguard, 115 Nos Bal ST, 69 gr 7828SSC.  First 2 shots were off the target shooting low.  Holding on a different point on the target the last 2 shots were less than an inch apart.

Getting back home I found the bbl again copper plated.  I hate to drive 10 miles out of town to shoot one round then drive home to clean but if it can save this bbl I'll do it.

224KING

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Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2018, 05:56:48 PM »
Is there any way of doing a little break in at the place you are shooting?Sounds like you have a rough barrel.Shoot some groups then clean.Shoot a group and clean.It will get better.I've never done the break in by the book.Some barrels are rougher than others.So I just play it by ear so to speak.If I have one that fouls real bad I'll spend more break in time with it.If I'm shooting several rounds with very little fouling I tend to just start using the rifle and not worry about the break in process.
Sorry... Yesterday was the last and final day for any and all complaints whatsoever.

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Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2018, 07:55:27 PM »
When I'm breaking in a barrel I take my cleaning stuff with me and clean it right there on the range to save time from having to make multiple trips back and forth from the range to clean the rifle.  It seems like you didn't get all the cooper out when you cleaned it last time because of how cooper fouled the barrel was from your description.  I would give it a good cleaning then let the solvent you're using soak in the barrel for two or three hours and then clean it again.  You might have to do this a couple of times but it will be worth the effort in the long run. 
Nothing is better than a Weatherby, big bore magnum, or a Colt.

Stacy

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Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2018, 05:48:50 AM »
From what you are describing I don't think there is anything "wrong" with your barrel. All my rifle barrels foul. There is much debate on barrel cleanliness and I'm the guy who cleans his barrels completely after each range session. Only to foul them once again just before hunting season to verify my rifle's zero.  Consider this:

There is an article on the web site 6mmbr where a number of benchrest shooters discuss their cleaning regimen. Many of them advocate removing all copper then firing a fouling shot(s) to foul the bore before shooting for groups.

Contrast this with what John Barsness wrote in an article titled "A Clean Barrel": "For decades it was suggested that a center-fire barrel should be cleaned every 20 rounds or so to maintain best accuracy. I’ve only owned two center fires in the past 20 years that shot larger groups after 20 rounds. The rest could go anywhere from 50 to 500 rounds without showing any decrease in accuracy. The rifle that can go 500 rounds without cleaning is the heavy-barreled Remington Model 700 in .223 Rem. that had its throat smoothed by fire-lapping. During its busy lifetime, this rifle has been shot more than any other I’ve owned. Twice it has gone 500 rounds without cleaning, and at the end of that string still shot the same size groups as it shot after 20 rounds. It also cleaned quite easily with three to four patches soaked in any decent chemical solvent. The only reason I cleaned it after 500 rounds was to see what effect that would have on accuracy. As often happens, accuracy was slightly worse for the first group or two. After 10 rounds or so, groups shrunk to the same size the rifle shot after 500 rounds. Of course, not all barrels act this way, but some do, and most can take far more shooting than shooters expect and still remain accurate. During a visit to the Sierra bullet factory I had an interesting talk with Kevin Thomas, the firm’s test shooter. Kevin once performed a test of his own with a .308 Win. barrel. Generally he cleans Sierra’s test barrels every 50 rounds or so, but once he kept shooting a .308 barrel for 300 rounds without cleaning. It just kept shooting tiny groups, and since all this shooting was done in Sierra’s indoor tunnel there was no doubt about the results. “One interesting thing was the best groups were shot between 250 and 300 rounds after cleaning,” Kevin said. “So why did you clean the barrel after 300 rounds?” I asked. Kevin shrugged. “General principles?”

So, I honestly wouldn't worry about the fouling you are seeing. Whether you choose to remove or not is up to you but it is perfectly normal for barrels to foul...even after just a few rounds. Good shooting!

   

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2018, 08:39:57 AM »
I would remove all copper then take a look and trip to the range. A lot of shooters have never even heard of copper fouling so it’s not a big surprise.