Spike Camp

Copper plated barrel

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2018, 10:02:18 AM »
I'm betting you get cotton patches which look like denim for a while...

I've had patches that look like denim every since I bought this rifle.  Maybe I should just cut up an old pair of Levis and use them for patches.  Then I wouldn't have to worry about it.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 10:06:43 AM by Dino82520 »

dubyam

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Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2018, 05:58:51 PM »
I'm just saying with a bore like that - heavily neglected and coppered badly - you're going to have to commit to cleaning it with the right solvent (which I believe you have) for a long time. When I say it could take a week or more, I'm speaking from experience. I've done as many as 143 patches through a single terribly coppered bore. That ran me 2-3hrs a night for  just over a week. Patches were denim colored, then went black, then back to denim, then black, at least four cycles. It was crazy. I'm not sure as I didn't mic it, but I suspect I opened the bore a few thousandths and alleviated both inaccuracy and unsafe pressures with factory ammo in that rifle.
I believe this is a practical world, and in it I can count only on what I can earn.  Therefore I believe in work, hard work. - The Auburn Creed
The older I get, the less stock I place in what men say, and the more I place in what men do. - Andrew Carnegie

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2018, 06:56:04 PM »
Sometimes old school still works the best.I routinely use the JB bore paste that has been mentioned.I have found that for really bad barrels that have not been cared for the old tried and true Sweets 7.62 works the fastest.Yes it stinks of ammonia and don't get it on any finishes that you don't want marred.Follow their directions and you want have any problems.If what you are doing does not work give the Sweets a shot.
Roger
Faster horses,younger women,older whiskey,and more money.

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2018, 09:12:45 PM »
After plugging the barrel and letting it stand for 24 hrs the solvent (Bore Tech Eliminator) had turned slightly blue. I ran a couple patches and they came out black.  I brushed the bore with a nylon brush and got rid of the black.  Now were back to blue.  Now this isn't denim blue but light blue and not solid but almost like random patterns.  I'll keep plugging away.  Like I said, if I can get it shooting by next goat season all will be good.  In the meantime I have an interesting winter project.

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2018, 07:26:18 AM »
It seems like you're making some good progress.  I'd keep soaking the barrel over night until the patches come out completely clean. 
Nothing is better than a Weatherby, big bore magnum, or a Colt.

224KING

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Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #35 on: December 25, 2018, 06:47:21 PM »
It seems like you're making some good progress.  I'd keep soaking the barrel over night until the patches come out completely clean.



X2
Sorry... Yesterday was the last and final day for any and all complaints whatsoever.

I try to avoid temptation unless I can't resist it.

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Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2018, 09:51:13 AM »
While I'm still cleaning, I started thinking about some of the latest trends in powders.  Does anyone have any experience with some of the latest powders that claim to reduce copper fouling?

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2018, 08:51:44 PM »
While I'm still cleaning, I started thinking about some of the latest trends in powders.  Does anyone have any experience with some of the latest powders that claim to reduce copper fouling?



I doubt it would do any good at all. The bullets are swaged as they enter the free bore. The jump from the Ogive to the lands is around .700. Weatherby stabilizes the bullet in the free bore before it hits the lands. The best thing you can do if your going to hand load is to ensure that the bullet is concentric. Take for example the .257 Weatherby Magnum. The bullet diameter is .256, the bore diameter .255 and the diameter at the lands are .253. I have attached a few pictures of a cutaway .257 Weatherby chamber and a section of barrel. The barrel section is the beginning of the lands and my saw cut was .035 wide. The round shown is a Weatherby Select Plus factory round. The bullet will not go into the free bore unless it is under extreme pressure. You'll always see a roll crimp on factory ammo because pressure needs to rise significantly for the swaging to occur.


« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 08:57:15 PM by HighDesertHunter »
Weatherby Rifles:
M5 USA .257
M5 USA 6.5-300
M5 USA 300
M5 German 300
M5 .308 TRR
VG .308
VG 270
Other:
Win M70 30-06
Brn XBolt HC Speed 300 WSM
McMil G30 Dynasty 270 WSM
Ber B-14 HMR 6.5 CM
Mar 1895 SBL 45-70
Win 94 pre 64 30-30
4 AR-15 Match 5.56
2 AR-15 Match Wylde .223
1 AR-10 Match .308

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2018, 01:46:46 PM »
Got the barrel down to bare metal and loaded up one round with a 110 LRAB and 67 gr of R 25.  First 2 patches showed nothing but burnt powder.  Third patch had a little blue. Ran a nylon brush through the bore about a dozen times and patches 4 through 20 while not denim did show considerable copper.  Time to plug the barrel and soak it.

At this point I am ready to order the Tubbs final finish system.

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2019, 08:29:10 AM »
What brushes/patch holders are you using? Are they plastic or stainless? Most jags, patch loops, brushes are made of brass which is roughly 65% or better copper.
You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves.

Better living through chemistry.

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2019, 08:48:57 AM »
What brushes/patch holders are you using? Are they plastic or stainless? Most jags, patch loops, brushes are made of brass which is roughly 65% or better copper.

That's a great point and if he's using brass jags or brushes that could be part of the cause for all the denim blue colored patches.
Nothing is better than a Weatherby, big bore magnum, or a Colt.

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2019, 09:13:38 AM »
What brushes/patch holders are you using? Are they plastic or stainless? Most jags, patch loops, brushes are made of brass which is roughly 65% or better copper.

That's a great point and if he's using brass jags or brushes that could be part of the cause for all the denim blue colored patches.

I asked him that earlier in the thread. He say's he's using non reactive jags and brushes. What he's now describing is normal for a Weatherby. A bore is lapped before it's rifled. Once it's rifled it's virtually impossible to re-lap the rifling cuts. I would never use a bore paste on my rifles because all I'm doing is opening up the lands. The bore on a Weatherby is typically .001 less than the diameter of the bullet. This causes a swaging of the bullet. In order to control pressures when doing this, the freebore is lengthened so that the bullet hits the lands after it is sized to the bore. The result is superb accuracy but the drawback is copper fouling in the throat. It's normal but if it's not attended to during cleaning, you will get a build up of carbon over copper in layers that over time can result in a lot of work to remove.

Attached pictures are a cutaway chamber of a .257
The first attached picture shows a bullet in the free bore. You cannot push that bullet into the free bore any further with out great pressure. This is where the swaging occurs that sizes the bullet to the bore in the free bore before it hits the lands and begins to spin almost immediately.

The second picture shows the two pieces. The piece to the right is the very beginning of the lands and the space between the two is the .035 width of the band saw cut.

So now you know why they copper up on us.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 09:31:33 AM by HighDesertHunter »
Weatherby Rifles:
M5 USA .257
M5 USA 6.5-300
M5 USA 300
M5 German 300
M5 .308 TRR
VG .308
VG 270
Other:
Win M70 30-06
Brn XBolt HC Speed 300 WSM
McMil G30 Dynasty 270 WSM
Ber B-14 HMR 6.5 CM
Mar 1895 SBL 45-70
Win 94 pre 64 30-30
4 AR-15 Match 5.56
2 AR-15 Match Wylde .223
1 AR-10 Match .308

224KING

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Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2019, 11:32:43 AM »
I always get my worst fowling in my 240 and 257 about 6 inches away from the muzzle.
Sorry... Yesterday was the last and final day for any and all complaints whatsoever.

I try to avoid temptation unless I can't resist it.

Everyone has a photographic memory.Some just don't have film.

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2019, 12:18:05 PM »
I always get my worst fowling in my 240 and 257 about 6 inches away from the muzzle.



The .240, .257, 6.5-300 and 30-378 tend to send copper further down the bore while the 300 seems to be better at keeping it closer to the throat area.  I'm pretty sure muzzle velocities have a lot to do with how far you find copper down the barrel.
Weatherby Rifles:
M5 USA .257
M5 USA 6.5-300
M5 USA 300
M5 German 300
M5 .308 TRR
VG .308
VG 270
Other:
Win M70 30-06
Brn XBolt HC Speed 300 WSM
McMil G30 Dynasty 270 WSM
Ber B-14 HMR 6.5 CM
Mar 1895 SBL 45-70
Win 94 pre 64 30-30
4 AR-15 Match 5.56
2 AR-15 Match Wylde .223
1 AR-10 Match .308

Re: Copper plated barrel
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2019, 12:55:15 PM »
Dino:At this time I agree it is time for extreme measures or go ahead and punt.Try the Tubbs I don't think it can hurt.Or maybe someone here that is sure they have the solution will buy it from you. :o
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 12:59:14 PM by terminator »
Roger
Faster horses,younger women,older whiskey,and more money.