Spike Camp

340 Wby brass question

tdbru

340 Wby brass question
« on: February 09, 2019, 10:11:54 PM »
Anyone here neck up 300 Wby brass to 340 Wby to use for load development to save the 340 Stamped brass for hunting?  if so, did you neck anneal prior to necking up?  if you didn't neck anneal, did you lose any cases to neck splits.
thanks,
tdbru

Re: 340 Wby brass question
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2019, 06:54:53 AM »
Anyone here neck up 300 Wby brass to 340 Wby to use for load development to save the 340 Stamped brass for hunting?  if so, did you neck anneal prior to necking up?  if you didn't neck anneal, did you lose any cases to neck splits.
thanks,
tdbru



I haven't done that particular resize. When I resize any case I always anneal to avoid splits or doughnuts and potentially sticking the brass in the die. I have a really fancy annealing rig but you can do it with a propane torch and a drill motor. Just be careful to not anneal too far past the neck.
Weatherby Rifles:
M5 USA .257
M5 USA 6.5-300
M5 USA 300
M5 German 300
M5 .308 TRR
VG .308
VG 270
Other:
Win M70 30-06
Brn XBolt HC Speed 300 WSM
McMil G30 Dynasty 270 WSM
Ber B-14 HMR 6.5 CM
Mar 1895 SBL 45-70
Win 94 pre 64 30-30
4 AR-15 Match 5.56
2 AR-15 Match Wylde .223
1 AR-10 Match .308

Re: 340 Wby brass question
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2019, 01:05:12 AM »
tdbru - I've never needed to neck up that much, but my 375 Weatherby Mag came with original factory ammo; presumably of the first, packaged in plain brown boxes. This was loaded in necked up 300 Weatherby Mag brass. 340 Brass should be quite freely available.

If you intend to do this do get a tapered expander ball and lube inside the neck. I would suggest Imperial Sizing Wax, or similar, in the neck. The annealling question always interests me as if using new brass the hardness should be correct already (more about that now), but I would anneal after the necking up before firing. Make sure you remove the lube before loading.

Okay, so just to pick up on what I said and a bit of a drift on this thread.

I've experienced splitting of necks and blowing vents in the shoulders of new brass.  The one instance was a few Winchester factory loads in 7mm RM, but I've never had an issue reloading new Winchester brass (ever), or other brass in that rifle. The other was several issues with Remington 375 H&H brass, the only brand freely available at one time. That rifle never split any other brand of new brass that I tried. By the way, the Remington brand of brass when trimming made little chips, whilst Winchester / Norma etc. made a long piece of curled up brass as it cut. Annealing certainly reduced this issue.

I can confirm that annealing works. My 300 Win Mag started blowing vents in the necks after six to seven reloads when I first started shooting a lot of rifle. This was with neck sized, or partially full length resized brass. I started to anneal every third reload and never experienced a problem again, even with the same batch of brass. I ran some of that brass to about thirteen reloads to see and primer pockets loosened first and brass was still shooting 1/2 to 3/4 MOA.

I acquired a more automated annealing system some time ago and now usually anneal after each firing unless I am really pressed for time. ES / SD came in a bit more as well, I suspect as neck tension is far more consistent.

When annealing make sure that you know how to perform the process to maintain safe ammunition without softening of the case head area for example.
I shoot cases with a belt because I feel the other cartridges need to pull their trousers up.

tdbru

Re: 340 Wby brass question
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2019, 01:21:53 PM »
African Leadwood,
thanks for the insight.  i've annealed necks before.  i have been trying to shoot F-Class, when work schedule allows me a break.  the F class guys have really educated me on all the details on producing ammo with low velocity SD, and consistent neck tension is a big part of the overall effort to reduce SD.  the top shooting guys in the group use ammo with an SD around 6 or below.  but they're not changing hole size in the case neck, just annealing as part of the effort to reduce velocity variation through more consistent neck tension.  Thanks for the tip about the tapered expander ball.  i will acquire one.  and thanks for talking about shoulder splits or vents and needing to maintain case head hardness.  thanks for the tip about lubing the inside of the case necks.  do you think RCBS case lube 2 would work ok since i don't happen to have the imperial sizing wax?  the brass i got was a mix of Remington and Weatherby 300 Wby Mag, supposedly once fired.   when i anneal the match cases, i take a clue from Lapua factory brass and anneal the necks and the shoulders.  so i am doing the same with these 300 Wby cases.  i am thinking (hoping) that expanding necks up from 30 to 33 shouldn't split too many as long as i anneal the necks/shoulders.  the 340 WbyM doesn't seem to be one of the more popular of the Wby chamberings.  i can find 257, 270, 7mm and 300, 30-378 Wby locally a lot easier than 340.  and as you pointed out, there is a finite case life.  so my plan is to do load development with this opened up brass and as i mentioned save 340 Wby cases for hunting.  another question, if i may, when case necks are opened up (or even necked down for that matter) do the necks maintain thickness (or thinness) uniformity?  for match shooting having uniform neck thickness is part of the equation of consistent neck tension, and bullet alignment in the throat, and i suspect for hunting where one is not typically trying to eek out the last 1/10 MOA in group size, non uniform neck wall thickness is probably not too big of a deal unless it's really bad.  i've never necked cases up and measured a before and after neck wall thickness so am not sure what to expect in terms of neck wall thickness uniformity.  if it's really non-uniform i'll have to think about neck turning i suppose.
Thank you for your support and guidance.
-tdbru

Re: 340 Wby brass question
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2019, 08:00:05 AM »
Sorry - no experience with RCBS lube aside from the sticky as gum old stuff in the 80's. The tubes would always crack open and the stuff would leak everywhere  >:( The water based Lee is another good alternative in my limited experience with it, but the Imperial works really well. You will know soon enough how it is working. The expander ball should not squawk at you from the case!

Don't mix you brass headstamps for best results, but you would probably know that. Case capacity will vary. It may also vary still if the rifles in which the brass was fired vary, but you will fireform it when you first use it, whereafter it should be quite consistent aside from lot-to-lot variations. You could also consider a FL resize first time around. Just make sure that the brass chambers before loading it all up!

By the way, I've had results as good as neck turning through sorting of brass by measuring neck thickness variations with a tubing micrometer. The idea is that a case with neck thickness variations should have similar variations in the body of the case, so this is a good step in sorting brass. Some weigh cases, but I see no point prior to trimming all to the same length and others have found that variations can be in the extractor cut out in the rim and that this doesn't necessarily measure consistency. Some love it as a means to sort...

If you neck turn you need to be cautious not to turn too much, so it is more of a skim cut, cleaning up say 50-60% of the neck in my opinion. I've never turned a Weatherby, but have turned various other cartridges and have a tight neck chamber on one. I'm not sure how easily you will cut into the neck / shoulder junction with the radiused shoulder. I would need to check it out some time. You do need to turn into the neck shoulder junction, to avoid the formation of doughnuts (because you leave a thick part if you stop short), but you must not turn too deep or you may blow a neck off. Always check for doughnuts anyway, but some report doughnuts after necking up or down. I've been pretty lucky and always avoided them.

With cartridges with the same neck length I cannot think you would ever have changes in neck thickness. The neck material remains the neck material and you are not forming a case shoulder into a neck. That is a different scenario altogether, although I have yet to ever have to do that. Necking down can mean using brass which is thicker to begin with, so you do need to beware of creating insufficient clearance. An example is 7x57 brass for 6mm Remington for example and generally the brass is thicker. Another example is 243 from 308 etc.

Remember that with incorrect headstamps you really do need to keep your wits about you and ideally mark the ammo / ammo box so that confusion does not arise. I'm sure some may say that a 340 won't chamber in a 300, but I've not tested it. The case length variation between the 270 WSM and 7mm WSM was apparently to avoid this from happening. When I started out people just expected you not to mess up.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.
I shoot cases with a belt because I feel the other cartridges need to pull their trousers up.

tdbru

Re: 340 Wby brass question
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2019, 08:46:56 PM »
well, i got the 300 Wby cases necked up to 340 Wby now.  of course the cases are also FL resized.  i'm going to tumble them this weekend to clean them of the resizing lube really well and then i'll fireform them.  just based upon observation without measuring, it looks like the case neck walls got thinner.  not a surprise.  after i fireform them i'll measure a few and see what i get for neck uniformity.

soon the load development will begin.  looking forward to it.
thanks for the support
-tdbru

224KING

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Re: 340 Wby brass question
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2019, 08:52:01 PM »
I hope you don't have a 300 Weatherby
Sorry... Yesterday was the last and final day for any and all complaints whatsoever.

I try to avoid temptation unless I can't resist it.

Everyone has a photographic memory.Some just don't have film.

tdbru

Re: 340 Wby brass question
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2019, 09:46:45 PM »
nope to the 300 Wby.   i have nothing that is close to the 340 in terms of brass size or shape.  so i'm not too worried about mixing up anything.  this is my first, and only, Weatherby.  after examining it closely the old saying, "so soon old, so late smart" comes to mind.  man, why did i wait so long to get a MkV?  these things are crafted so much better than the savage/rem/win/ruger rifles.  except perhaps for the #1, which can be quite nice too, depending on.  but anyway, these cases will be quite different from anything else i have so i am not too concerned about mixing them up for anything else.
good concern though, understandably.
thanks,
tdbru

224KING

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Re: 340 Wby brass question
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 04:23:55 AM »
Good to know.Hope you have the time of your life with the 340
Sorry... Yesterday was the last and final day for any and all complaints whatsoever.

I try to avoid temptation unless I can't resist it.

Everyone has a photographic memory.Some just don't have film.

BB340

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Re: 340 Wby brass question
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 02:34:48 PM »
Looking forward to seeing how those necked up brass work. Do you have any proper .340 brass to compare the loads with?
Aussie gun nut.

tdbru

Re: 340 Wby brass question
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 03:28:50 PM »
BB340,
i have some 340 Wby brass, but not a lot.  and even with the best brass care, brass has a finite life in terms of number of reloads.  So i wanted to keep the 340 brass reload count lower than if i also did load development with it as well.  the 300 Wby once fired brass was available relatively inexpensively (compared to new brass, 8 to 1 price difference).  once i have a load that groups well in the necked up brass i'll give that load a try in the 340 brass and see if it groups as well.  i am hoping so.  if it does, at that point the 340 brass i do have will be strictly used for creating hunting ammo.
thanks for all your guidance and support.
-tdbru

BB340

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Re: 340 Wby brass question
« Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 03:47:04 PM »
BB340,
i have some 340 Wby brass, but not a lot.  and even with the best brass care, brass has a finite life in terms of number of reloads.  So i wanted to keep the 340 brass reload count lower than if i also did load development with it as well.  the 300 Wby once fired brass was available relatively inexpensively (compared to new brass, 8 to 1 price difference).  once i have a load that groups well in the necked up brass i'll give that load a try in the 340 brass and see if it groups as well.  i am hoping so.  if it does, at that point the 340 brass i do have will be strictly used for creating hunting ammo.
thanks for all your guidance and support.
-tdbru


That my friend sounds like a bloody good idea!  :)
Aussie gun nut.

tdbru

Re: 340 Wby brass question
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 06:55:43 PM »
well, in my neck of the woods, new Weatherby 340 brass sells for > $2ea USD.  i picked up 100 once fired 300 Wby cases (mixed Wby and R-P) for $25 USD total.  seemed like a reasonable path to pursue with upcoming load development in mind.  we shall see about the wisdom of this decision as i work through the various loads.

by the way, the gift box of bullets was some Hornady 270gr. ELD-X.  anyone have a chance yet to try these out of the 340?  if so, results?

thanks all for your support and guidance,
-tdbru

Re: 340 Wby brass question
« Reply #13 on: Today at 12:32:11 PM »
well, in my neck of the woods, new Weatherby 340 brass sells for > $2ea USD.  i picked up 100 once fired 300 Wby cases (mixed Wby and R-P) for $25 USD total.  seemed like a reasonable path to pursue with upcoming load development in mind.  we shall see about the wisdom of this decision as i work through the various loads.

by the way, the gift box of bullets was some Hornady 270gr. ELD-X.  anyone have a chance yet to try these out of the 340?  if so, results?

thanks all for your support and guidance,
-tdbru

I was gonna suggest the same thing!