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300 weatherby vs 300 prc

Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2020, 07:58:37 PM »
What is a ladder test ???
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Derrill

eford

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Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2020, 08:25:14 PM »
A ladder test is the increase in powder across a number of loads, such as 44.0 grains, then 44.3, 44.6, 44.9 and so on but keeping all other aspects of the loads the same. Usually a 3-shot group will show you a wide or tight enough group to make a reasonable judgement about it being a good load or not. Further tweeking of the most accurate loads can be done, such as changing seating depth but thatís not part of a ladder test.
With a small case, such as a 222 Rem, a 0.3 increase in the powder charge can make a bigger difference with muzzle velocity than the same increase with a large load used by a 300 Weatherby Magnum (80+ grains).
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 08:31:33 PM by eford »
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Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2020, 08:36:30 PM »
Well, maybe itís a local term, just means powder increments from a starting load up to max or pressure signs. I use .2 of a grain although.3 is probably more practical with the bigger calibers. A lot of guys nowadays look for a flat in velocity with a chronograph which might be better in my case as Iím having a bit of trouble with the recoil. Although I might as well grit my teeth and learn the rifle. I could be fighting seating depth or powder too. Thereís probably more than a few guys on here that have the knowledge and the shoulder that could make the whole process look boring and easy. Must say I didnít think much about all the hecktick crap going on while that thing was trying to punch my shoulder off. Hoping sharing the fun is doing the same for everyone else on here

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Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2020, 08:43:16 PM »
Nealm66: are you shooting off a bench or from the prone position? A slip on recoil pad, like one used on shotguns, might be a big help with the recoil.
Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine.

Every man needs to know his limits.

Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2020, 08:53:27 PM »
I have been doing ladder tests and didn,t even know it. Thanks nealn66 and Eric for the info.
Good Hunting And Shooting To all
Derrill

Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2020, 08:59:22 PM »
Lol, definitely crossed my mind. Even sweating in a big fat coat. Not sure if you have any brothers but my older brother was right there blasting away next to me and I wouldnít have ever heard the end of that one. Iíd be better off making up some good reason to use a chronograph that avoided the recoil truth ha ha. No worries, itís his rifle. I was actually worried it was going to blow ragged holes right off the bat and make my prc purchase pointless. Itís still possible I just havenít hit a node yet. .2 increments take a while to get through and I have a sneaky suspicion those 208ís could be a prcís nightmare lol

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Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2020, 06:49:13 AM »
I would have went with probably 1 grain increments,with a case that big,on first ladder test then picked the best group and dropped to 3/10ths powder charge difference.After that I would try different seating depths on the powder charge that gave the best groups during the ladder test.
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Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2020, 09:03:51 AM »
I havenít had great success with that method. Iíve even seen on here, I canít remember who it was but if I remember right, they took the speed they liked and just played with bullet seating depth until it grouped good. Good grief that sounds easy lol. Out of curiosity I did measure a couple of the better groups and they were at 1.2 inches ( Iím not sure how to measure for correct moa) which isnít horrible for 200 yards

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Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2020, 10:35:57 AM »
I'm confused here, getting older I guess.   In the pictures which I can't seem to enlarge on my computer to see any detail as to two different rifles and one with a de-resonator.  A little more information if you would please.  What brand and model is your new 300 prc  ?     Comparing to anything else is a non-issue  for the most part with the exception of fps velocities which can be done at any time and it does have to be done.   The reason I say this is because your rifle is going to like what it likes accuracy and speed wise to your rifle only given a certain baseline of re-loading components you will be using or factory ammo.   A person is peeing in the wind without accurate velocities especially at these longer ranges.  Without going into  great detail a ladder test is what the majority of re-loaders use when testing ammo because it's the fastest and easiest, and this is fine.    The Optimum charge weight OCW  test method is a kind of a take off or improved or more detailed  version of the ladder test if you will.  I won't explain it you guys can read up on it and try it if you want.  One  thing is keeping your groups in the general same area on the target  Now while using the same powder in different increments large capacity cases larger increments, medium cases smaller increments , small handgun cartridges a lot smaller powder test increments.  Load up a few shells with say 4 rounds min of each of  your test loads,  note 3 round groups can be a little mis-leading IMO the more rounds to a point the better when load testing,  Using the same bullet, primer, case, oal, with the exception of different powder charge weights.  you aren't worried about velocities just right yet only group size and where it hits on the target.   Shoot 1 test load and see where it hits on the target keeping a record of the load,  shoot another test load with increased powder charge and see where it hits on the target . and so on.   What you are looking for is not group size per say, but rather where on the target are the group or groups hitting,  if 3 out of 5 groups tested are shooting up and right within an inch or so of each other this is good,  and if the other groups are shooting all over the target this is bad,  your most consistent loads are the ones that are in the same general area, one group may be 1 " group another 1 1/2" group, another might be 3/4" group so long as they are in the same general area each time,  that's your starting place to start fine tuning in smaller powder charge increments trying to find the best group and then fine tuning again this time adjusting seating depths.  What you are doing is finding the barrel node where the bullet exits roughly the same place at the end of the barrel each time, check velocities before you get too carried away with switching a bunch of components to make sure these are the velocities you can live with.  If this doesn't work and you can't get any groupings in any one area change one thing at a time,  powder or bullets and start over.  If you have a chronograph you can check velocities really at any time and it might be better the sooner the better to weed out any powder or bullets that just aren't cutting it.  Another advantage to this approach is you know the powder charge weight are going to somewhat consistent on the target given a few plus or minus in charge weight  This is a good thing IMO  especially when shooting at different temps, altitudes, and when you got to go buy powder 2 years down the road and it's a different lot.   Lots of different ways you can go about getting the same results just don't get set on it's got to be this or that accurate or this or that velocity your rifle is going to tell you.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 11:05:16 AM by zonie »

Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2020, 01:27:10 PM »
Sorry for any confusion, thanks for the feedback. I think I know what your saying about the group thatís away from the others. False node is a term Iíve heard. Iíve chased that problem with a creedmoor. I donít see the significant changes in poi usually with .2 ladder so I can get tricked easier. My method isnít as quick as some but it was taught to me by the president of our local rifle club and it seems to work ok. Always good to hear different approaches and soak up as much as I can. The prc is a Christensen arms Mesa long range. Sorry you couldnít zoom. I havenít posted many pics before so they were kinda blurry. Think it was the size of image I chose. Iím not sorry I bought the prc but I probably wouldnít have if Iíd have investigated the 300 weatherby potential a little more thorough. Will be fun to have them both dialed in and see if thereís really any advantage to the new caliber. I really was just trying to share the fun and it also might be something someone else is debating. Iíve got a ways to go with both guns to get them ready. I work full time and in the middle of building a house so sometimes a project like this is just what the doctor ordered. Again thanks for the feedback and itís always good to hear the different angles. So far , the shotgun shoulder pad suggestion is definitely going to be on the to do list  :)

zonie

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Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2020, 05:50:45 PM »
I know the feeling I was still working when we built our new house , fortunately my son is a contractor.   To be honest I haven't heard anything bad about Christensen arms in fact I wouldn't mind have one.   One thing about Weatherby Vanguards  they tend to be accurate and barrels shoot fast,  I have a Vanguard 300 the older S1  which will push a 180 grain to 3300 fps + in a 24" bbl  with new brass and still get 3 firings before the primer pocket opens slightly, and still accurate. My 300  Mark V,   I can push pretty hard and still very good accuracy.  I'm not a huge fan of a belt on any cartridge unless it absolutely needs it and there isn't that many that actually need a belt a few and that's about it. 375 & 300 H&H are a couple.  Keep us posted on your results always good to get new information.

Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2020, 06:27:06 AM »
Ya, Iím doing as much as I can myself. I have some friends with construction skill sets that get me going in the right direction. Building a shower pan currently. Last day off so , hi ho

Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2020, 12:06:36 PM »
Loaded up some prc with the once fired Hornady brass. Definitely different than weatherby brass. Some of the primer pockets weíre already feeling loose. Ordered some adg brass, will play around with the Hornady for a bit to get the barrel broke in before I start with the adg (it was kinda spendy). Got 10 more strings of weatherby Iím hoping to shoot if it warms up enough. Iíve got a shotgun pad but my brother says a thick wool sock works better so the butt of the rifle can find the shoulder socket better. Also noticed the virgin weatherby 300 brass is very good quality. 

Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2020, 05:59:22 PM »
I know the PRC /ruger etc... was designed to fit in a standard length action instead of a magnum length, but I think these cases/cartridges would be MORE ATTRACTIVE if they were magnum length...

duplicating magnum performance in a standard length action does little for me...

but betting current magnums with standard bolt faces....fills a nice lil niche I think between the say .300 win.mag and .300 RUM....

or the 375 ruger, H&H, RUM/WBY.... etc... and so on...

PS- not crazy about free bore on weatherby cartridges...

and there are so many also rans....these days...in cartridges.

Re: 300 weatherby vs 300 prc
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2020, 05:05:33 PM »
Well, this is all just for fun and so far it has been for me. As far as just for the average guy, hunting only purposes, the weatherby hands down, no contest. Even with the new howa at similar prices, the weatherby factory ammo is where it shines. But for getting together with a bunch of buddies and moving steel around and seeing who can get first shot hits, (handloads), this is where Iíd say itís going to be fun. I found two pretty good groups close together in the ladder. Going to load 10 of each and proof and chrono. Going to ladder test some hunting bullets for the prc to get a first fire with the adg brass and also it will also be used for elk in Utah by a friend. Iíd loan him the weatherby but itís just too dam nice looking and I donít want to scratch it haha. I noticed the Christensen arms lr is chambered tight for the 225ís and is a bit long with 230ís at 20 thousandths off. Hoping to shoot again next weekend.