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Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?

Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« on: June 20, 2020, 07:07:24 AM »
I'm hoping some of the more experienced shooters in this group can help me with this. Last fall I purchased a slightly used Weatherby Mark V Ultra lightweight 6.5CM with a 22" barrel. I added a 3.5-10 Leupold VX3i scope and a Timney trigger. Didn't measure trigger pull but I'm guessing it is around 3-3.5#. My main goal is to get confident on big game out to 200-300 yds if the opportunity arises.

I want to share my recent target performance with you to see if you have any helpful input. I had zeroed the rifle at 100-150 yds with factory Hornady Precision Hunter ELD-X 143 gr bullets. I did take a decent 7 point buck in rifle season with it at 35 yds. I had an interesting experience with that deer but that is another story. This spring I shot 3 shots at 200 yds and hit 6" low and 3" right with 3 shots. A bit puzzling since it was dead on at 100. I purchased a new box of ammo, and shot again at 100 yds. I punched a 3/4" group at 100, dead center and 2.25" high which is about perfect for a 200 yd zero. From the same bench I moved out to 200 and shot a group about 1.75". They hit about an inch or so low but 3-3.5" right.  It seems bizarre that it is drifting right at 200 yards. My plan is to shoot some more and try centering it at 200 to see what affect that has at 100. I've attached photos of the targets and my rudimentary set up. I am shooting uphill, about 40' in rise at 200 yards. Also wind was less than 10 mph at 200 yds and should not move me more than an inch at that distance.

Here is another previous post if you are interested in more background on my rifle: http://weatherbynation.com/index.php?topic=18793.0

« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 07:09:58 AM by Csvt99 »

Grouchy

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Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2020, 07:37:00 AM »
I'd try some different ammo. Zero at 100 isn't the same as zeroed at 200 IMO. My 6.5 CM tracks perfectly from 100 to 200 with my loaded 130GR TSX. Mine is a Savage. You are allowing that ultra light weight to cool between shots?  Good luck with it!  :)

Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2020, 08:06:10 AM »
Yes - I was waiting on average 3-5 minutes between shots, and only 3 shots per day. Barrel was barely warm to the touch. Also I would think that if the barrel was too hot, it would be spraying rather than shooting tight groups to the right. But yes I do know I have to be careful with the thin barrel.

danno50

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Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2020, 09:07:05 AM »
As Grouchy mentioned, the ammo brand and bullet weight can make a difference for every individual rifle. Your second zero being 2.25" high and centered @ 100 yards should have been right on or just a little high @ 200 yards. We don't know if the new box of ammo you purchased was the same or different brand of ammo, but with both @ 100 and 200 yards you shot to the right of center. With the same ammo that grouped 1.75" MOA and to the right of center again, you should have gone back to your 100 yard target to see if anything changed. Firing between 3 and 6 shots in a day (I understand you want to keep the barrel from over heating) doesn't tell you much about your rifle. It may be you pulling the shots to the right since it happened at both 100 and 200 yards, or your rifle may not like the ammo. Maybe you can tell us more.
DosEquisShooter

Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2020, 09:55:14 AM »
The 100 yd shots were dead center, they did not drift right. The only shots that drifted to the right were at 200 yds. That's why I'm concerned - because its right on at 100 but then significantly right at 200. I repeated this with 2 different boxes of the same ammo. Not a big deal for big game at 200, but it could get a lot worse at 300. I did tried a box of Hornady SST, but they were awful at 100 and shooting to the right. I think my next step is to try another brand of ammo to see if the results repeat. Like you said I could be pulling the shots.

Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2020, 10:03:24 AM »
Could having the scope mounted with the crosshairs canted cause this problem?

danno50

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Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2020, 11:22:14 AM »
Something else to consider is the bullet type. Some rifles don't like boat tail bullets, but will shoot flat base bullets well. Within the same brand some bullet types are different. Hornady SST is a boat tail and the American Whitetail is a flat base interlock. Also rifle twist rates will limit the length of bullet it will stabilize.   
DosEquisShooter

Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2020, 11:36:02 AM »
The scope was lapped and mounted by a good gunsmith so I'm pretty sure it's not that. I'll try a different bullet type to see how they do. Thanks for the tips.

eford

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Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2020, 01:35:19 PM »
It seems to me you have several things working against you. Different ammo, temperature and humidity and possibly loose scope mounts. Have someone else shoot with your least accurate ammo and see what happens. This could be a case of a semi-bad day at the range.
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Grouchy

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Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2020, 03:10:17 PM »
The scope was lapped and mounted by a good gunsmith so I'm pretty sure it's not that. I'll try a different bullet type to see how they do. Thanks for the tips.
Clean the hell out of it and try different ammo. I read your posts before offering advice. LOL! If it was a scope related problem , zeroing at 100 would have been difficult.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 03:18:33 PM by Grouchy »

224KING

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Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2020, 05:23:58 PM »
Could be a parallax
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Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2020, 06:56:54 PM »
Kinda goes with the ammo discussion. I bought into the creedmoor thing back when there were 2 types available and 120's were about all you could get amax and GMX (ok maybe there were three or 4 but all Hornady - lol) Amax and GMX always shot very well.

I have two creeds and wanting to go with heavier bullets myself when ammo selection became like 270win I tried to go 140's and wasn't as pleased with the results so I backed off to the 130 class. I have a Remington cdl and ruger 77 hawk predator both shoot norma 130 scirocco very well and I really love that bullet. I did zero one in with barnes 127LRX which the ruger really likes too.

If you have or can get a sled that would help shooting 2-300 yards. (might catch grief for this too just my opinion) 10x scope holding on a 1" dot at 2-300 yards offers allot of operator error and not to that it's your fault your only so good aiming at a small spot with limited magnification.

I'd clean it and run something else just to see it might like something better those are what I choose to use and have had success with. Good luck, keep us posted;

Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2020, 01:48:49 AM »
Without shooting over a chronograph it is tough to say what elevation will do. Throat and barrels can mean that your MV is a lot different from what you expect, although I agree with the opinions that one would expect a different elevation than you achieved.

I would suggest zeroing - at least centering - at 200 and then taking it back to 100 to see. Also shoot several groups to see and I recommend setting up your rests again between the groups.

Sometimes this is a function of having your rests set up at an angle. If you push the rifle forward and pull it back on your bags, or rest or whatever, it should track deadstraight and not move crosshairs left and right; i.e. it must recoil straight back. Any error is magnified at a longer range. This is a problem that I have found in the past and if you don't check it is sometimes not that obvious.

To check the scope set up shoot a group at 200 yards and dial elevation up or down say 10 moa (+/- 20 inches) on a long target and see if the groups are lined up.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2020, 01:51:46 AM by African Leadwood »
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Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2020, 01:32:08 PM »
It seems to me you have several things working against you. Different ammo, temperature and humidity and possibly loose scope mounts. Have someone else shoot with your least accurate ammo and see what happens. This could be a case of a semi-bad day at the range.

Having someone else shoot it might be the best thing. That would at least help to determine if it's me or not. I think I will do that and try different ammo before anything else. Thanks everyone!

Grouchy

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Re: Feedback on 6.5 CM results at 200yds?
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2020, 01:56:45 PM »
It seems to me you have several things working against you. Different ammo, temperature and humidity and possibly loose scope mounts. Have someone else shoot with your least accurate ammo and see what happens. This could be a case of a semi-bad day at the range.

Having someone else shoot it might be the best thing. That would at least help to determine if it's me or not. I think I will do that and try different ammo before anything else. Thanks everyone!
+1   :)