Spike Camp

Up in caliber

zonie

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Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2020, 10:09:42 AM »
Worldwide dangerous game aside   I'll keep my comments to the lower 48 in the USA.  Yes I have dangerous game rifles and I also don't use them in the USA.  Beware the man with one gun because he knows how to use it.  I've seen  Old school Apache's on the reservation where I lived when I was a kid and live very near the reservation currently,  world class Elk hunts some people using  30-30's and one time seen an old Indian guy using an SKS,  I guess no one ever told him he couldn't kill A big Bull elk with a 7.62x39 , friend killed elk with a 357 magnum hand gun.  My point is if a person is a once in a blue moon elk hunter for instance and it cost him a bunch of money for this basically once in a lifetime type hunt then I would agree they should use the biggest caliber suitable for the type of hunt they are on.  Most guides I know would rather see a person show up with a caliber their client is familiar and comfortable with rather than any specific minimum caliber that person is not capable of hitting the right spot with, in other words you can't kill them elk fast enough if you can't him them in the right spot regardless of caliber or some new wiz bang bullet construction.   If you are like my family and close friends are we are die hard,  hard core elk hunters period end of story.  For the most part  we use an assortment of calibers some friends younger daughters and sons use 243's on elk and they get em, it's a little light for me personally but I'm not them either.  My son , my wife and me usually use 270 Winchester's because that's what are folks used , my youngest daughter uses a 1 st year Remington 700  short barrel carbine in 30-06 kicks like hell with that hard recoil pad and she get's elk with it although she has taken a little bull with my 300 Wby.   For me personally to say I need to move up in caliber is kind of why , we know what we are doing, we know when to shoot and when not to shoot so I kind of classify my friends and family as been there done that and anything you can do wrong we've probably done at one time or another, like shooting one in a deep canyon or your wife breaks an ankle getting a big bull off a ridge on the 2 nd day of packing it out, or shooting one and having to stretch out 2000 ft of 3/16 inch stainless cable to reach an elk in 20 degree below zero weather  one of the coldest winter on record we froze our Huveos off.   I'll will never do that again took 7 guy's and my uncles ford f150 4x4 in the snow all day to drag the elk out.  My wife took a nice cow elk with a little 6.5 creedmoor blew right thru that elk one shot  @ around 150+ yds.  She shot a nice Bull @ 385 yds with her 270 Win,   If I were to say to someone that  I didn't know oh man you  need to use such and such to hunt elk he would  probably look at me  like I would react , really I didn't know that.  I'll close with if you are good with your gun , and you know what you are doing, don't shoot when you don't have to,  use what you are good with.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 04:36:21 PM by zonie »

Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2020, 01:13:35 PM »
It still amazes me that the Weatherby .270 Mag does not get a lot of love or respect. A 150 grain Nosler Partition or 140 grain Accubond would be an excellent Elk cartridge. Hell may be the best all round cartridge for big game for that matter.

Whitetail, black bear, moose, pronghorn and the list goes on and on. This cartridge has always intrigued me to the point that I am considering trading my .270 WSM and .300 Win Mag for one. I wish Weatherby had a blue collar mans priced model.


Terry
Be proud of your hunting heritage and enjoy the greatness of Canada

Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2020, 01:17:32 PM »
I agree Zonie...I love some of those elk recovery tales. Mine arenít quite as good, but we boned out/packed out a bull with just two of us with game bags and pack frames a few years ago.

Iím pretty sure my back will never be the same... :-\
JK

PARA45

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Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2020, 01:24:56 PM »
It still amazes me that the Weatherby .270 Mag does not get a lot of love or respect. A 150 grain Nosler Partition or 140 grain Accubond would be an excellent Elk cartridge. Hell may be the best all round cartridge for big game for that matter.

Whitetail, black bear, moose, pronghorn and the list goes on and on. This cartridge has always intrigued me to the point that I am considering trading my .270 WSM and .300 Win Mag for one. I wish Weatherby had a blue collar mans priced model.


Terry

You can find some nice used ones on line, or the Weathermark is an excellent option and not too expensive.    ;D  You are correct on the 270 Weatherby Mag, and another favorite of mine the 7mm Weatherby Mag.

My apologies, I just realized that you are in Canada, and they are more expensive there. 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 01:27:46 PM by PARA45 »

Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2020, 02:26:27 PM »
Up from the 257 Weatherby I would choose the 280 Ackley with 140-150 gr bullets dependIng on make.
I know what I know if you know what I mean

Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2020, 03:17:26 PM »
Yes im going to bring this story up again. Lol
I just like it.
But the argument here isn't the choice in caliber but the trajectory at longer distances. Jim jumbo has killed lots of Elk with his 30-06 just seems this one was A little further than he thought.  Either way He got A 300 wby. Out of the deal.
Mark

Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2020, 04:07:57 PM »
It still amazes me that the Weatherby .270 Mag does not get a lot of love or respect. A 150 grain Nosler Partition or 140 grain Accubond would be an excellent Elk cartridge. Hell may be the best all round cartridge for big game for that matter.

Whitetail, black bear, moose, pronghorn and the list goes on and on. This cartridge has always intrigued me to the point that I am considering trading my .270 WSM and .300 Win Mag for one. I wish Weatherby had a blue collar mans priced model.


Terry

You can find some nice used ones on line, or the Weathermark is an excellent option and not too expensive.    ;D  You are correct on the 270 Weatherby Mag, and another favorite of mine the 7mm Weatherby Mag.

My apologies, I just realized that you are in Canada, and they are more expensive there.

No apology necessary and thanks for the information....much appreciated

Terry
Be proud of your hunting heritage and enjoy the greatness of Canada

Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2020, 04:32:45 PM »
It still amazes me that the Weatherby .270 Mag does not get a lot of love or respect. A 150 grain Nosler Partition or 140 grain Accubond would be an excellent Elk cartridge. Hell may be the best all round cartridge for big game for that matter.

Whitetail, black bear, moose, pronghorn and the list goes on and on. This cartridge has always intrigued me to the point that I am considering trading my .270 WSM and .300 Win Mag for one. I wish Weatherby had a blue collar mans priced model.


Terry

You can find some nice used ones on line, or the Weathermark is an excellent option and not too expensive.    ;D  You are correct on the 270 Weatherby Mag, and another favorite of mine the 7mm Weatherby Mag.

My apologies, I just realized that you are in Canada, and they are more expensive there.

No apology necessary and thanks for the information....much appreciated

Terry


Terry, PM sometime, on what your looking for and what kind of money you want to spend, I might be able to help you locate a 270 Wby. 

And I agree, both the 270 Wby and 7mm Wby make great elk caliber's.

Rob
cfp-223REM
accumark-223Rem
ultralite-240 Wby
synthetic-240 Wby
synthetic-257 Wby
ultralite-270 Wby
fibermark-270 Wby
accumark-270 Wby
accumark-7mm Wby
stainless-300 Wby
fibermark-300Wby
accumark-30378 Wby
fibermark-340 Wby
accumark-338378 Wby
custom-375 Wby
DGR-378 Wby
DGR-416 Wby
custom DGR-460 Wby

txaggie

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Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2020, 11:46:58 PM »
It still amazes me that the Weatherby .270 Mag does not get a lot of love or respect. A 150 grain Nosler Partition or 140 grain Accubond would be an excellent Elk cartridge. Hell may be the best all round cartridge for big game for that matter.

Whitetail, black bear, moose, pronghorn and the list goes on and on. This cartridge has always intrigued me to the point that I am considering trading my .270 WSM and .300 Win Mag for one. I wish Weatherby had a blue collar mans priced model.

If someone didn't want to push for the extra punch and recoil of a 7 or 30, you summed it up well. Not much in north America and far beyond that is going to take up to 150 grain bullet at Weatherby's velocities. Lot of versatility in this one. My pride would have had me arguing with you 20 years ago, but I grew up and bought one and now own 3! ;) But yes all mine were used deals locally or online. Just do not have the demand or love, but it's a Great caliber.

Terry

Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2020, 07:07:31 AM »
I always liked the idea of having a backup rifle, so some overlap can be a good thing, or for a father/son trip...

over the years I have come to like shorter barrels, ie, 24 over 26..... lighter is good to a point, but not super light.
a shorter stiffer barrel that still can get it done well.

ie. a 338 win mag needs far less barrel than a 7mm Rem.Mag.
same with 340wby vs 300wby vs 7mm wby.

also if you're not planning to shoot past 600yds, BCs are nice but not the critical element IMO.

I've had hunted with....243win., 270win, 300win.mag, 340wby
my personal thinking is a ....243....280ai....300wsm w/23" barrel, and a 340wby w/24" barrel covers almost everything!
I love my 340wby, but at this point a lighter shorter 300wsm sounds better to me for the bigger animals, and if I need more the 340wby will do it., also I could see the 280ai becoming a do all for most things even some animals like elk etc...

good luck, keep us posted if you end up debating certain rifles/cartridges.

zonie

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Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2020, 08:39:15 AM »
All my late  cousin ever used on elk was a 280 Remington, great caliber.                                                                       

Wyoming Hunter one year my wife shot this pretty nice cow elk ,  we were in the truck and she got out and killed this cow with her 270 Win in a meadow it was getting pretty late in the day and getting dark.   I had a bed size piece of 5/8 " plywood in the truck bed for this reason,  with a come along we man handled/dragged the field dressed elk in the bed and went to camp on the divide where our little hunting trailer was, anyway  I left the elk in the bed of the truck and was going to skin it out the next day at home it was cold out,  later that night a pack of   re-introduced Mexican gray wolves got the scent and decided to come into camp,  they howled all night  keeping my wife up all night worrying about her elk which kept me up trying to keep the peace.  We kept the lights on the trailer the wolves never came any closer.

One time my wife and I both shot pretty large broken up antlered Bulls.  Not really rag horns but rather Big Bulls that had been fighting over the months.  Persistence always pays off when elk hunting My wife had got hers earlier that day elk was  running,  very close shot maybe 30/40 yds  and just dumped this Bull it actually dug a trench when it fell he was running so fast and hit the ground running , we got this one back in camp and went out again for my Bull and found him late in the afternoon right at dusk.   Not a long shot maybe 60 yds staring straight at me, he had  dried  mud and small rocks encrusted chest from wallowing 270 Win 150 grain Partition hit him straight on and I heard the wack and dried mud/rocks went flying and bull didn't go down then he took off fast.  We followed the blood trail with flash lights until 1 AM  and lost the  blood trail, and decided to go to camp get some sleep and track him again in the morning, about 7 AM we found him still alive sitting up under a tree about a qtr mile from I had shot him the day before, I finished him off and when we skinned him out we found the Partition had completely came apart core and all on the dried mud/rock encrusted chest,  I found pieces of jacket material completely in the back straps when butchering, and that bull still took off at a run.   Elk are very tuff animals and something I learned a long time ago keep shooting until they drop.  That's not the first time I've core separations using Partitions, and I still use them even today in certain rifles very good bullets, unless they are solids most bullets won't stand up against dried mud and small rocks and expect them to work perfectly. 

Another time we were hunting a wildlife habitat area about 4 or 5 miles as the crow flys from our house  and my wife dumped a nice cow elk she was hunting with another close friend while me and my youngest daughter were out in another area a few miles away, anyway were driving back to the meadow where my wife was hunting and we ran into an electric company lineman and his boom truck sitting on the side of the road watching my wife kill her elk ,  I stopped and asked what was going on and he said some lady out there just killed an elk and then it dawned on me it was my wife out there. We drove as close as we could to the habitat as we could and walked in oh yea she got a nice cow.  I didn't want to drive 30 or 40 miles round trip to get our horses to pack the elk out,  anyway I knew a gal and her husband who had horses/mules  a couple miles down the road outside the non-motorized travel area  from where the elk was, the old cowboy was half blitzed from the night before and this was about noon, he was still  half drunk anyway we got his horses and mule ready and he cut across the habitat and  I drove the truck back to the closest point I could get to her and the elk.  About this time my son and an old hunting partner showed up with another elk in his truck and lent a helping hand.  This is where I screwed up not being a farmer  I figured a cow horse  could drag that elk out to the road and we had 2 horses and a mule, like that wasn't going to happen , they are not plow horses ,  we didn't use the mule he just watched the fiasco , we tied ropes to the saddles of the 2 horses and tried to drag that elk out ,  one horse went down and they gave it all they had to get this elk to the road,  we should of just cut the elk in qtrs and threw them in the panniers and been done with it.  I'm sure that old mule was getting a kick out of watching those horses. 

This is the last one and I do have other stories,  it's getting a little long,  My wife,  son, and I took my youngest daughter out bull hunting in an area where the current typical world record rocky mtn bull elk was taken years before.  This was the last evening of the last day of the hunt we found a nice meadow with a nice little herd of elk in it early in the morning, maybe 30 or so elk.  We didn't know there was a cattle water tank in the back of the meadow and we didn't want to spook the elk, it was pretty obvious the elk were bedding in the meadow at night and going back up canyons early in the mornings, so we decided to leave them alone and come back in about 3 in the afternoon ,  dark was about 5 pm so it only gave her an hour or so hunting time. The back of the meadow was about a mile from where we could get in so my wife and I decided to stay back with the truck hidden in the tree line and watch what was going to happen if we could even see,   my son was about 18 at the time and I gave my daughter my 300 wby which she had shot before,  we had suspicions  that there was a large herd bull in there and there was.  I gave both the kids instructions of what I wanted them to do if she was going to get one it would mostly likely be right at dusk so I told them to take their flashlights and if mom and I saw 2 lights coming back out from the meadow we would know she didn't get one, but if only one light  was coming out then we knew she got one down,   for her to stay put with the elk  have her brother walk out  we would meet up with him.   Yea right good plan didn't exactly work out perfectly.   My wife and I only heard one shot,   a few minutes  later  she asks you think she got one,   I said probably , no one else out here.  Anyway a few minutes later it's getting dark and I see only one light coming out so we started the truck,  and off we went to meet up with my son,  he got to us before we got to him,  we had never been in that meadow before just trails, in 4 wheel drive, a little 2 track kind of,  then a creek , then a forest,  then back in the meadow,  at least we were kind of going in the right direction at night, around a bunch more trees , and finally to a cattle tank, and a flashlight with my daughter sitting there with a nice spike bull elk.  We got it dressed and in the truck,  could not find a bullet hole at all even after butchering,  windpipe was hanging out the elks mouth, I honestly think she shot it up the butt and the bullet traveled lengthwise thru the elk out it's mouth.  Anyway they told us they were sitting on the side of a little hill all camoed out and the herd of elk came up behind  and then past them rolling small rocks  from their hoves  down on them as they elk slid down the little hill,   they stayed still  by a bush, and  the elk herd never saw them although they said the elk would look over at them but couldn't figure out what they were,  the herd bull was there bugling , but wouldn't come in until after dark (smart elk)  they sat there for awhile and it's getting darker and darker to a point they better do something so she decided to take the spike and dumped him right near the  waters edge maybe 40 yds from where they were hiding.   I guess when she pulled the trigger on the 300 she was in a contorted position and the recoil rolled her over into my son.  That was a good hunt.




« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 06:26:37 PM by zonie »

danno50

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Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2020, 02:15:47 PM »
Good stories. Love the details of the hunt. Sounds like your daughter took a Texas heart shot and that spike never saw it coming. :o ;D ;D ;) ;) :D :D
DosEquisShooter

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Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2020, 06:31:38 PM »
Interesting replies
Seems to be 2 groups for the most part. Those that use larger caliber's and therefore don't need to go up in caliber for any game in the lower 48.
And those like me that use the smaller caliber's, and than move up on the larger game. It's also interesting to see that the ones that move up, for the most part move up 3 caliber sizes or more.
For me it's a .257 for PD's to Black Bear
.340 for Black Bear to anything in NA.
7 mm Weatherby as a backup, all around. Which is really becoming one of my favorite cartridges.

Mike

zonie

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Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2020, 09:51:38 PM »
Dino82520 ,  my son took his first elk when he was 11 years old with an old 300 Savage 99 light weight with the old lever safety.  He still has the rifle I gave him  in beautiful condition every now and then I'll ask him if he wants to trade me back I sure like that rifle and darn accurate.   

257  good subject with a lot of different perspectives and opinions and that's a good thing.  We as a family have weapons we can choose from , but in reality my wife has her favorites, my son has his favorites and my daughter and I have our favorite rifles.  My wife hates my 257, she tolerates my 6.5 creedmoor, she loves her 270 Win and 243 Win,  she not a big fan of my 300 Wby's even though she has used them in Africa.   

Re: Up in caliber
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2020, 10:14:33 PM »
Dino82520 ,  my son took his first elk when he was 11 years old with an old 300 Savage 99 light weight with the old lever safety.  He still has the rifle I gave him  in beautiful condition every now and then I'll ask him if he wants to trade me back I sure like that rifle and darn accurate.   

257  good subject with a lot of different perspectives and opinions and that's a good thing.  We as a family have weapons we can choose from , but in reality my wife has her favorites, my son has his favorites and my daughter and I have our favorite rifles.  My wife hates my 257, she tolerates my 6.5 creedmoor, she loves her 270 Win and 243 Win,  she not a big fan of my 300 Wby's even though she has used them in Africa.   

my gf is the same, she can shoot the larger calibers if she wants to, but all she uses is her 243 and 240. She been hunting 30 years now, she's taken close to 30 elk, over 20 moose, and many whitetail, and muledeer, with only a 243 or 240, I don't even suggest to her to try a different caliber.


Interesting replies
Seems to be 2 groups for the most part. Those that use larger caliber's and therefore don't need to go up in caliber for any game in the lower 48.
And those like me that use the smaller caliber's, and than move up on the larger game. It's also interesting to see that the ones that move up, for the most part move up 3 caliber sizes or more.
For me it's a .257 for PD's to Black Bear
.340 for Black Bear to anything in NA.
7 mm Weatherby as a backup, all around. Which is really becoming one of my favorite cartridges.

You have it pretty much cover with your 3 choices, Mike. I figured out awhile a go, if you don't move up 3 caliber sizes or more, with todays bullets, you don't gain much. For example, if I need more than a 300 mag with modern 180 gr bullets, I go right to the 375's to really see any gain. Not that any of the 300 mag larger than the 300 Wby, or the 338/340's , are not great calibers, I just see that much gain on animals. Good topic, Mike 

Rob
cfp-223REM
accumark-223Rem
ultralite-240 Wby
synthetic-240 Wby
synthetic-257 Wby
ultralite-270 Wby
fibermark-270 Wby
accumark-270 Wby
accumark-7mm Wby
stainless-300 Wby
fibermark-300Wby
accumark-30378 Wby
fibermark-340 Wby
accumark-338378 Wby
custom-375 Wby
DGR-378 Wby
DGR-416 Wby
custom DGR-460 Wby