Spike Camp

One caliber or two calibers?

DHE

One caliber or two calibers?
« on: September 30, 2007, 11:14:38 PM »

Hello Sportsmen and Sportswomen;

Many African countries will not allow a hunter to enter their country with two rifles of the same caliber.  This is all the regulations state to my knowledge -- no two rifles can be brought of the same caliber into the country by a non-resident.

If someone were to arrive with one rifle being a .416 Weatherby, and the backup rifle being a .416 Remington, or .416 Rigby, or maybe a .416 Dakota, for instance; has that person arrived with one caliber or two calibers?

DHE

Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2007, 05:06:56 AM »
Well, if it has different chamber dimensions it's definitely a different "cartridge".  Same difference as the .30-06 and the .300 Weatherby.  If it has the same "bore diameter" then it's definitely the same caliber, i.e., a .308 caliber is the umbrella that the .30-06 and the .300 Weatherby fall into.  If the rule states "same caliber", it's better to be safe and take it literally; in other words, don't risk bring two rifles chambered for a .308 caliber. 

So, to answer the question directly, that person has arrived with two rifles in the same caliber.

Personally, I'd bring the .300Wby and a .378Wby!!  ;D
Jerry

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Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2007, 08:49:40 PM »
My choice would be the .460 Wea Mag and the .338-378 Wea Mag.

or

Maybe I would bring the .30-378 Wea Mag and the .378 Wea Mag just to make a fuss with the local custom agents.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 09:10:07 PM by SoWhatAgain »

Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2007, 04:35:27 PM »
i have been to south africa two times,not an expert by any means but i carried my
300 wby and my 416 rigby. i shot only plains game and the 300 did great. the 416 i used
on zeb, blue wilderbeest never knew what hit them
safari george

Ben

Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2007, 05:51:53 PM »
As some others have said it is not worth the risk to confuse the police in Africa. Also having a large and small rifle can be very useful with the variety of critters to be hunted. Best of luck

Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2008, 01:13:34 PM »
In my one trip to South Africa, the police officer looked at the SAPS paperwork and compared it to the caliber designation and serial number on the barrel. Based upon that, I will assume that so long as the caliber designations are different, there would not be a problem.

I would recommend most highly that you consult with your outfitter and an African hunting experienced travel agent to be sure. I would also recommend using a service like riflepermits.com to obtain your SAPS approval in advance. I'm sure they would be able to give you a definitive answer.
Personal is not the same as important.

zonie

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Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2008, 06:49:19 AM »
Ran into that problem in South Africa, didn't fill out the paperwork correctly, should had read SAPS instructions better, anyway took family and 4 rifles, 2- 270's, 1- 30-06, and 1- 300 WBY, our kids were under age and so we put their rifles on our forms, no big deal until I put both 270's on my temp-import form, of course the police at the airport caught it, had to re-do all the paperwork on-site before we could leave, took an extra 2 hrs, no problem with the 30-06 and 300 WBY, the police were actually very helpful as rules are sometimes changing,  make sure you make copy's of ALL paperwork, i.e. passports, firearms import forms, letter of invitation, etc and keep a copy in your guncase, on your person and a spare somewhere else, first thing our PH did was put a copy of our firearm import form in his pick-up. Friends went to Namibia the month before and had to switch flights in South Africa, problem was the firearms were lost somewhere in airport and were not allowed to leave the country until guns were found, eventually they were found and did not miss their flight, keep an eye on everything, your in a foreign country and things are different, most ph's have rifles you can use, but it's not the same as using your own, when we go again next year I will  make sure paperwork is done correctly and still take our guns and have a great time.

Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 07:48:10 PM »
I would actually suggest if going to Namibia, then go to Frankfurt, then to Windhoek.  Some people have had problems with guns in London.  I haven't experienced this personally, but I've heard stories from seasoned travelers.  But, with that being said, if you're going straight through South Africa to Namibia, it shouldn't be a problem.  It's only if you have to overnight there.   Then, you have to collect your luggage and the ordeal ensues. : (
With that being said, I still think the South African police department is much better than it used to be.  I would say to fill out the SAPS forms completely beforehand.  Take copies of everything, and don't forget to have the U.S. Customs form filled out at the Customs Office.
I would rather not use someone else's gun, unless I had to.  For instance, if my luggage was lost or delayed. 
Selous - any relation to the late FC?

Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2009, 05:03:49 PM »
Say- a very interesting thread, and I certainly appreciate everyone's opinions. 
Here's a similar, albiet related, question:  My friend and I are planning an African Safari, specifically, plains game in Namibia.  The rifles I own are in .243, .30-30, .300 Win Mag, and .375 H & H Mag.  It seems to me that the simplest solution would be the .300 Win Mag for all game, but therein lies the question:  Would you suggest two calibers, and if so, which two? 
Thanks in advance for your opinions- very best regards.
Gentleman Hunter
"The one true passion never tarnished by modern times."
 

zonie

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Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2009, 08:33:09 PM »
Hi Bill:  Friends went to Namibia a month before we went to SA, they loved it. They have a lot of very large Gemsbok and Kudu,  and other game of course. They ended up shooting at much longer ranges than we did.  Check on most direct flts, we used Delta from Phoenix to Atlanta to Dakar to South Africa.  Only switched planes in Atlanta. Had rifles checked thru,  If you bounce from FLTS to Europe then to Africa will take more time and have more chance for lost Baggage. Our friends flew into Johnnesburg like us, but had to switch flt to Namibia. Book your hunt and FLT well in advance. Make sure on connecting FLTs to give yourself a couple hours due to delay's. One of the guys used a little 204 ruger for the very small antelope and a 338 win mag for everything else. He said his PH looked at him a little funny using the 204 until he saw what it did. They like the big calibers over there for good reason. My oldest daughter took a 243 , but never used it. If it were me I would take the 300 and 375 with most shooting done with the 300.  I would use only premium bullets and probably go with the 180 gr in the 300.  I guess it really depends on what you are going for ? I would take 2 rifles just in case one breaks or you end up taking something really large.  Don't trust your PH's rifles unless you know him.  Don't take 2 rifles of the same caliber under YOUR import form, we did and had to re-do all paperwork at the airport police. Pack ammo and clothes in 2 different bags just in case a bag gets lost, at least you will still have ammo to shoot and clothes to wear.  Pack cameras, bino's, etc and set of clothes in your carry-on bag. Pack lite, Take a few goodies for your  PH'S  like knifes, Stoney point tri-pod the tall one,  cheap bino's and leave them there with them, they are very expensive over there and a little good will goes a long way.  Practice shooting off shooting sticks or stoney point tri-pod before you go.  I had a hard time shooting off sticks, just not use to it. Your PH may not use them every place is different, best to ask before you go.  Some shots are very fast. Get the Taxidermy done here, it may be a little more expensive, but if they do it wrong, good luck sending it back and corrected.  Have friends that did it both ways some trophy's done very well over there, but some were not.  Be wary.  Check on shipping costs with Trophy's done there in many lg Crates Vs 2 small crates with hides and horns.  If you have your trophy's done here get your taxidermist to get all your animal tags done PRIOR to you going, (you need to take them with you) 1 tag for hide and 1 tag for horns,  per each animal.  These are laminated and are wired-on. Since your are going with a friend you both should have your own tags, shipping will be billed to each of you. If you go for leopards or cheetah make darn sure YOU CAN and have proper CITES permits for both countrys, Primates such as Baboons need special paperwork in our country,  Best to check before.  Take 12 or so  extras tags,  the info on the tag's is import contact here in the states, customs broker, where do you want to have your trophy's sent. i.e. nearest airport to your tannery.  your name, address, ph#, etc and your taxidermist , name address , ph# etc.  If your taxidermist is not familiar with import procedures  find another one who does.  Take a hand varmit call and have fun with the Jackels.  We have friends that own Frontier bullets in South Africa and we  visit each other.  Next year were are going back.  Type in frontier bullets, go to hunting gallery # 1 and click on photo's of an african hunt  right under my write-up, and take a look of our trip.  You all will have a ball in Namibia,  Good luck.   Ron

Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2009, 08:37:24 PM »
Hi Bill, I would say that you are correct that the .300 would be great for a single rifle safari. I might hedge my bet if eland would be one of the animals I had on my list. That being said, the only eland I have shot was with a .300. I have taken more African animals with a .300 than with any other caliber, North and South American as well. I can understand wanting to take two rifles when hunting half way around the world. I would definitely recommend the .300 and the .375. The game animals in Africa are tough and they are often found in bullet deflecting cover. The .243 might be OK for some of the smaller animals but in Africa you never know what you will run into and I would much rather be over gunned than under gunned. The 30-30 just dosen't have the range for a long shot at a once in a lifetime kudu across the canyon. The .375 with lighter bullets, 260 or 270 grain will still give you the reach you may need and have plenty of penatration and knock down power. Another benefit of the .375 is the availability of ammo, bags get lost but you can pick up .375 almost anywhere in Africa. Hope this helps and good luck on your safari.
Jim

Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2009, 07:57:59 AM »
I just book a 10 day for June 2010.  Gonna take my son after he graduates college.  We will be taking a 340 WB and a 338 win as our main guns.  And a 300 win and a 450 Marlin as our backups.  Hunting Eland (or Nyala), Kudu, Blue (or Black) Wildebeest, Blesbuck, Gemsbuck, Impala, Red Harterbeest (or Waterbuck) and Warthog.  Anyone want to estimate the Taxidermy bill?   :o  Naturally I left that figure out when I estimated the price of the hunt for my wife!

I kind of want to use that 450 on something (although we are only going after plains game).  Maybe the Eland?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 08:45:02 AM by rbrusca »
God Bless America

zonie

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Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 10:59:13 AM »
Hi RB:  Prices can vary as much as hunting prices. I have a good friend that is a taxidermist and hunts Africa also, and more importantly he knows how to mount them,   Now the prices I am going to give you are what I paid in may/june of 07 and NOT a reflection what you may have to pay, they may be quite a bit more.  All were shoulder mounts with the exception of a full mount Jackel.  Lg animals such as kudu, waterbuck  $ 800,  Eland $ 1200,  Small antelope, Impala, warthog, blesbok, $ 500,  full mount Jackel  $ 500.  That included the Tannery bill.  Taxidermy is an art so you get what you pay for usually.  The Taxidermist over there get you on what they call  Dip and Ship, and that's  really mis-leading.  I't just terminology I'm not use to.  The PH's will take your trophys   to THEIR local Taxidermist to prepare.  What that means is  Dip and Crate, they boil the skulls,  dip the hides as per import requirements, flesh, salt and dry, and crate the trophy's,  and Does Not include shipping to the States.  All said and done it averaged  $ 225 for each  Trophy dipped, crated and shipped to the Tannery in TX.  Most Taxidermist here don't tan the hides anymore and send them out to Tannery's around country.  Our Hides and horns came in 2 sm crates vs  Many lg crates if we had them mounted over there. So you can see the cost savings in that respect.  Now you can have them mounted over there and save on taxidermy costs,  BUT you may or may not get the best job or exactly how you want them,  I have seen good and bad,  just like here. When your skinners cape the hides you may ask them to keep parts of the back ends and keep them to make into pillow coverings, etc.  Hunting Africa is really not that expensive if you don't go overboard. The Taxidermy bill is what gets you.  We paid $ 160 per day for hunters and was all inclusive rooms, meals, drinks, trackers, skinners, etc, Of course each Trophy you take has a different price.  We are really lucky because we have friends that live there, but we hunted with  different people so the cost for you would be the same,  and now probably lower due to the economy.  Ask  your PH a lot of questions.  I took the whole family 6 of us that got a little pricy, now if the kids want to go next yeat they got to pay.  I won't be like a kid in a candy store next time and will be very selective on what we take, Buffalo and Wildebeeste for sure. People are really great over there. Your son and you are going to love it.

Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2009, 11:57:53 AM »
Thanks Zonie.  Alot of food for thought in your post.  It might actually be fun to do a dip and ship and then torture my local taxidermist by asking him to shoulder mount a wildebeest!  I will ask my PH to get me pictures and/or samples of his guy"s work.  The lodge seems to have quite a few mounts (at least it does in the photos) so I can always check that way too.  Can't wait.  Already ordered my Russell Safari boots!
God Bless America

zonie

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Re: One caliber or two calibers?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2009, 03:48:11 PM »
Hi RB: I would use the 450 Marlin,  A friend of mne used a custom 45-70 bolt action and had a lot of fun with it.  You really don't to have make a final decision on taxidermy until you get there and take some time to see his shop.  We did and were not very impressed.  At least take your animal import information tags with you (your local taxidermist will make them up for you) and if you don't like what you see just have them Dip and Crate.  Check on shipping prices for completed mounts before your over there,  they will have a good rough idea on what it costs.  E-mail your PH he will get that info for you.  All the prep work you are doing now is exactly right,  it's some thing you don't want to mess with during your hunt.  Good luck