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Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?

Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« on: December 02, 2007, 06:01:43 PM »
My Vanguard Varminter shoots like a dream with 45gr BTHPs but if I go to a 55 or 60gr bullets they are everywhere including sideways ::)So my question is with a 1 in 12 twist is a 50gr bullet the max weight I can go with?

John

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Re: Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2007, 06:30:36 PM »
You might be answering your own question. I have the same problem with a Savage model 99 in 250-3000 and a TC carbine in .223.  However the Savage has a 1 in 14 twist and wasnt designed to handle anything heavy.  I sold the TC because in my opinion it was junk and better served as a tomato stake than a rifle.
   You should be able to handle the 55's and 60's with your gun.  i would try a different style or even manufacturer in the heavier weights.  That is if you are using boat tails go to spitzers.  Some rifles just dont like some bullets.  Also as an after thought take a look at your muzzle to see if there are any burrs as the bullets exit.  I would almost discount this because you are getting performance from the lighter bullets. 
ALMOST DANGEROUS

Re: Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2007, 10:11:31 AM »
Thanks for the info.I have a few 55gr v-max bullets i'll load them up while I wait for this layer of ice to melt so I can get to my range.I figured that it was going to be an easy fix,the muzzle is fine,the barrel is almost mint even after 2000 rounds.This rifle will consisently shoot 3/4 groups at 200 yds and as I understand I might be able to get increased range with a heavier bullet thats the only reason I have been trying heavier bullets.Thanks again      Walt

Dan

Re: Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2007, 04:04:51 PM »
Here is what some might say is the "book answer."  The Greenhill formula is a formula to tell you what twist rate you need for a given bullet.  To calculate the rifling twist rate, divide 150 by the length of the bullet (in caliber) then multiply by the diameter of the bullet (in inches).  [e.g.  A 50 gr. boattail, length .78 inches, divided by diameter .224, gives us 3.48 length in calibers.  Now divide 150 by 3.48, then multiply by .224 you get 9.65.  You will need at least a 1:9 twist to shoot that bullet.]  I hope this helps.

Dan
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Re: Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2008, 06:27:46 AM »
I´ve been using Remington 50gr SP and HP and Hornady Match 52gr and 53gr and some other brands of 55gr and it´s great the groups I can made.. but more than 55gr I CAN´T USE..

I think 50gr is better.. it depend in the brand also..

Re: Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2008, 01:33:36 PM »
check -

www.bergerbullets.com

they indicate that you can use up to a 64 grain bullet as long as YOUR vanguard has a 1 in 12 rifling twist.

I use 45s and 55s in my Howa
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sp6x6

Re: Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2008, 08:27:33 PM »
6mmBR has a whole section devoted to the 223 with lots of good info on bullets and powders, I'm currently waiting on some lapua brass to work with my 223.

Re: Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2014, 09:30:24 AM »
6mmBR has a whole section devoted to the 223 with lots of good info on bullets and powders, I'm currently waiting on some lapua brass to work with my 223.
Where do I find this  (6mmBR) that has a whole section devoted to the .223 with lots of good info on bullets and powders

danno50

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Re: Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2014, 10:27:47 AM »
Not all rifles in the same caliber with a 1 in 12 twist will stabilize a longer heavier bullet. Maybe Berger bullets has developed a 64 gr. bullet that works in vanguards, but here's a simple explanation on twist rate.
                                                   Rifle Twist Rates

Rule of thumb : The heavier and longer a bullet is, the faster the rifling twist rate needs to be to stabilize it in flight. The lighter and shorter the bullet is, the slower the rifling twist rate needs to be to stabilize it in flight.

Expressed in terms of the number of revolutions per inch of barrel length, the ratio is commonly expressed by designations such as 1:10 or 1/10 or 1 in 10 twist. The 1 represents 1 twist, the 10 represents inches of barrel length. Therefore, a 1 in 10 twist represents 1 complete bullet revolution every 10 inches of barrel length traveled.
Higher numbers for this ratio indicate slower twist. Lower numbers for this ratio indicate faster twist.
 
Most rifle calibers have standard twist rates already designated, and will accommodate most of the bullets (weights/lengths) that are suitable for that caliber. However, rifle barrels can be made with faster or slower rates of twist ( special order ) within a particular caliber to satisfy the needs of specific shooters. (Swat Teams, Dangerous Game or Varmint Shooters)  Assuming the rifle has a good crown, a crisp light trigger and the barrel is pressure bedded or floated, you should be OK using bullets that fall within the boundaries of the std. twist rate for your caliber and get good accuracy. However, all rifles have pet loads. 
 
Using a general cal. choice such as the 223, here is an example of “not enough” and “too much” TWIST : If the rate of twist is insufficient to stabilize the bullet, (twist rate too slow 1 in 12 or 1 in 14 with heavy/longer bullets) it will cause the bullet to yaw and pitch by the time it reaches the target. If the rate of twist is too high, (twist rate to fast 1 in 9, 1 in 8, or 1 in 7 with light bullets) a high velocity bullet can begin deteriorating under the centrifugal force and possibly break apart before it reaches the target.


 
DosEquisShooter

Re: Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2017, 01:56:51 AM »
My 1-12 223 shoots 45g Sierra's great - going to try 40g and 50g Hornady's .  When I inquired about the heaviest I could shoot my response from Weatherby is that my gun can shoot up to 5g but the most accurate result was with the 45g

224KING

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Re: Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2017, 06:11:13 AM »
All rifles are different.Just have to find which bullet,weight,maker,style your rifle likes.
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danno50

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Re: Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2017, 05:00:31 AM »
I agree with Tom, trial and error with longer heavier bullets is the only way to find out what works in "your" 1 in 12 twist rifle. However, most do better with light to 55gr. stuff. Weatherby now makes a 223 with a 1 in 9 twist, which would most likely handle the spectrum of light to heavy bullets. Ordering one from Weatherby would guarantee your getting a 1 in 9 twist if thats what you specify. The problem is that there are many new old stock rifles still left on the shelves nation wide, and the barrels are not stamped 1 in 9 or 1 in 12 twist, so you may not end up with the rifle you want.
DosEquisShooter

dubyam

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Re: Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2017, 06:26:38 AM »
Be aware that a 9 twist may not be ideal for some of the heaviest/longest bullets in the .223cal selections. Most of the AR stuff is now being made with 7- and 8-twist barrels to accommodate these heaviest/longest bullets.

JBM Ballistics has a stability calculator you could try using before you buy a bunch of bullets. It's not foolproof, but it will at least get you in the ballpark.
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224KING

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Re: Maximum gr weight bullets Vanguard Varminter 223?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2017, 03:06:54 PM »
If you do go to a fast twist just remember it can be detrimental to shooting light bullets unless they are very well constructed.
I try to avoid temptation unless I can't resist it.

Everyone has a photographic memory.Some just don't have film.