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IHMSA cartridges, Elgin, 22 shooting, etc.

imr4198

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IHMSA cartridges, Elgin, 22 shooting, etc.
« on: May 30, 2011, 05:38:02 AM »
Fellow Weathbyterians,
   I miss not being able to carry on a conversation with members who ask me questions or make interesting comments.  Most times I don't read the posts until days later, or even if I do I can't reply.  Writing a decent response on the keyboard of a netbook is next to impossible for me.  With that in mind, perhaps I can catch up a little with one post.
   One member asked if I shoot at 100 yards with a 22.  I have a 100 yard range in my back yard that has a set of smallbore steel silhouettes on it.  I have used them for 30 years or so, and used a 'gong' at 100 yards before that.  I used to shoot 22shorts mostly, but can't do that any longer as my rifle (Ruger 77-22) refuses to shoot shorts.  My Winchester rifle that I used for years would shoot shorts as well as LR, but not the Ruger.  Some day I would like to hold the Ruger so the barrel was pointing straight up.  Then I could balance a ping pong ball on the muzzle and shoot a 22short.  The odds of hitting the ball would only be about 50%.  Once upon a time when I would get bored with shooting the 22 targets on the club range I would shoot the big bore rams with a 22 pistol offhand.  At the time, I thought hitting the 200 yard targets was easy.  It took a long time for the 'ting' to come back, and naturally it didn't knock them over. 
   Another member wrote a nice response about my Elgin Gates post.  At the time I never knew why the Weatherby silhouette pistol didn't get off the ground.  I wrote a post about the thing a year or so ago.  It was simply the best looking pistol that I had ever seen.  My shooting buddy and I were both disappointed when we couldn't get one.  I think many shooters expected the Weatherby to become the dominant unlimited pistol in short order.  My pal  had to be satisfied with shooting two Wichitas and a couple of Remington XPs.  I shot a couple of different T/C Super 14's along with some of his pistols until I bought a Remington 7BR of my own. 
   While I was doing a little research for my IHMSA wildcat series post, I wound up on Nolan Jackson's Wichita site.  Under his history of Wichita he mentioned the Elgin Gates IHMSA series.  He says that they were based on the 220 Russian case and ran from 17 through 22 calibers and bigger.  I laughed so hard that I think I pulled something.  Then the site said that Wichita delevoped the cartridges for Elgin.  Ho, ho, ho, I started coughing and turned red in the face.  Stop, Nolan you're killing me.  The smallest IHMSA cartridge was the 25 IHMSA.  The biggest was a 35.  There was a 25, a 6.5mm, a 270, a 7mm, a 30, a 338, a 35, and I am forgetting one.  There were eight all total.  The 6.5, 7mm, and 30 were the only ones that had any popularity at all.  Elgin sold Douglas barrels and reamers for all of them.  None were based on the wimpy little inch and a half long Russian case (39mm) or used a small rifle primer.  Wichita did build a 7PPC based on the Russian case once upon a time.  Elgin's IHMSA cartridges were based on a 300 Savage case with the shoulder set back and a slightly different shoulder angle.  The case was 1.860".  Elgin talked Federal into making one lot of formed brass with a cool ram silhouette and IHMSA headstamp.  Lots longer than the 220 Russian. 
   I suppose if Wichita wants to write an imaginary history in which they developed these imaginary 220 Russian based IHMSA cartridges and as far as I know chambered them in imaginary guns then... why not.  I might as well imagine I am going to use one of them to shoot an imaginary trophy kudu out of my pea patch.  My imaginary pea patch. 
your pal,
imr4198

PS The eighth IHMSA cartridge in the series was an 8mm.  I wonder if anybody ever built a gun for it?  imr      

Re: IHMSA cartridges, Elgin, 22 shooting, etc.
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2011, 07:39:17 AM »
IMR:I had thought of challenging you to a 100 yd shoot off with my 22 vs your 22 mag.I now think you could beat me with a 22 pistol vs my rifle. I really need to get back into shooting the 22.Fun and relaxing.I will be getting a new  air rifle so that I can shoot in the yard.Being lazy as I am,I will get another Crossman CO2,not as accurate or inexpensive to shoot as the single cocker but fun blasting away one pellet after another.Who knows after a little practice I may decide to challenge you after all. ;D
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 07:46:01 AM by terminator »
Roger
Faster horses,younger women,older whiskey,and more money.

Re: IHMSA cartridges, Elgin, 22 shooting, etc.
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2011, 06:52:21 PM »
The amount of gun people that stretch the truth surely must rival the fisherman,maybe there should be some kind of competition organized between them which would be kind off interesting,the weatherby pistols is something rarely heard of over here and i wonder if they're related to the CFP weatherby's,as handguns are severely regulated over here i've never been to a gun shop or even gun show that's had them so know very little about them but i do like the look of the CFP's
              Nik

Re: IHMSA cartridges, Elgin, 22 shooting, etc.
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2011, 08:51:16 PM »
Nik:I have never known a fisherman that lied.They may stretchhhhhhhh the truth a little though. ;D.Show me the fish or a picture.I always tell them ya can't bs a bs'er.Something all should remember with their stories of fish or long shots on animals.
Roger
Faster horses,younger women,older whiskey,and more money.

imr4198

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Re: IHMSA cartridges, Elgin, 22 shooting, etc.
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2011, 05:30:17 AM »
   Well I did it.  Yesterday evening I caught the imaginary kudu that had been trampling my imaginary peas.  There he was snooping around and munching on a vine here and there and generally making an imaginary nuisance of himself.  Luckily I had my trusty imaginary Weatherby Mark V Weatherguard.  It is chambered in a 300 Weatherby short magnum which is based on the 220 Russian case.  The Wichita outfit helped Roy with the cartridge and developed it for him since Roy didn't know much about imaginary kudu cartridges. 
   I slipped out and popped him through the liver with the first shot, but imaginary kudus are notoriously hard to kill.  As you can well imagine.  He broke into a stumbling run, but I brought him down with a lucky imaginary neck shot before he had time to build up speed.  Wally wanted to take a picture of him, but didn't have an imaginary camera.  We took a tape to the horns and I imagine they measured 44 inches apiece.  I imagined that would put him in the Rowland Ward record book, but when I tried to look up the species I saw the minimum measure was 45 inches for imaginary kudu.  Drat. 
   The pseudo WW300 (Wichita-Weatherby) short mag is sure death on imaginary kudu.  I used a load consisting of a 180grain Speer spritzer loaded with H4350.  I can't say how much powder I used in good faith, because this web site already has enough imaginary data.  I imagined that I would have the beast mounted, but I didn't get him skinned in time, and the hair started to slip.  Imagine that.     

Re: IHMSA cartridges, Elgin, 22 shooting, etc.
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2011, 04:11:49 AM »
IMR damn lucky i have an imaginary computer so i can imagine i sent you congratulations and kudus on your kudu,i imagine you can help me purchase a WW300 for my own imaginary hunts(which i have as much as girlfriends),how much imaginary money will i need to imagine i purchased such a great gun,i will be right for loads as i have my own imaginary manual and i'm sure i've posted data for several differant calibres,i will work up some loads using adi powders and woodleigh bullets and you and i could work together on producing a manual based solely on the wichita-weatherby 300 imagine how great that would be
            Nik

imr4198

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Re: IHMSA cartridges, Elgin, 22 shooting, etc.
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2011, 06:35:19 AM »
Fellow Weathbyterians,
   I try to have some fun with my posts, and like to think others enjoy reading.  It was pointed out to me once upon a time that it was hard to tell if I was joking or serious.  Oddly enough people that I talk with face to face say the same thing.  In the interest of clarity, I will try to dissect my post entitled IHMSA, Elgin, 22s, etc. 
   The portion dealing with how Wichita was claiming to have developed the IHMSA cartridges for Elgin was serious.
   The part where I said that my Ruger shot 22 short cartridges so poorly that if I balanced a ping pong ball on the muzzle and fired that the ball would be hit only half the time was baloney.  The shooting 22 shorts poorly was legit, the ping pong ball bit was bull. 
   Folks hate to hear about somebody shooting long ranges for some reason.  There was no attempt to boast or embellish, but it evidently came out that way.  I shot the rimfire IHMSA course hundreds of times.  Maybe more.  The far target was 100 yards, and the target at that range is the size of a small shoe box maybe.  I also shot big bore on the long range targets.  Since I shot the long course with a 30 Herrett (shortened 30-30 Win wildcat with a sharp shoulder), it was nothing unusual to shoot the same targets with a 22 pistol.  After all the 200 yard (or 200 meter on a metric layout) ram is as big as a collie dog.  Many of the ranges had a 200 yard backstop and rules of the day allowed shooting the 200 meter target at 200 yards.  A 22LR cartrridge at that range is dropping like a rock, especially out of a pistol barrel.  Did I actually do it?  Make up your own mind to suit yourself.  After all somebody who writes about time travel with barbarians, secretly being an old lady, and shooting imaginary kudus can't plead that they aren't full of bull.     
    I might send in another target or two, or maybe not.  I think those things irritate people also.  At the time, it seemed like sending in a target or two shot by the 22WMR Marlin might be fun.  It started out when one of my pals said he had a Marlin mag that had been uglying up his gun safe for 7 or 8 years without him so much as shooting it.  When I asked what he wanted for the thing, he said $150.  I didn't need it, but the rifle was clean and had a sling, scope, and a box of Dynapoints with it, so...  I like it a lot.  The lightning emblem that I taped to the side for the picture was just a ha, ha.  A gunsmith pal of mine showed me a target shot with a blued Marlin mag, and he could barely keep the shots on a foot square target at 200 feet.  I hoped that this one wasn't so bad, and was pleasantly surprised.  22WMR rifles aren't match rifles, and although the newer ammo is probably better than it used to be still isn't match ammo.  A good 22LR with target type ammo will generally toast any 22WMR.  The mag is much more effective in the field, which is why I like them.  Lots of folks bought 17HMR's, but a surprising number of the local boys have given up on them.  I always wanted one, but for some reason never bought one.  The 17M2 never caught on here at all.  What will a 22WMR do in the field?  Clean kills on coyotes up to a hundred yards or so are possible.  40 grain JHP bullets generally shoot through a coyote from side to side.  No, they are not 22-250's.  Guys around here carry the things in their pickups for a cheap, all purpose, critter whacker.  According to a recent article in The American Hunter, a CCI 40 gr. Game Point would penetrate about 18 inches in gelatin and expand. 
   The Confederate button.  I actually found it.  If anybody wants to read an unusual book written by a soldier from Tennessee who fought all over the south with 'Company H', I would love to send you a copy.  PM me your email address and I will send it as an attachment as soon as I can.  Always check your junk folders and make sure your email address is correct.  I get a lot of returned mail for some reason.  If you are one of the people who recently asked for load data but didn't get any, it was because it could not be delivered to the address you gave. You are welcome to try again.  Email friends, do not send me SPAM or forward jokes, stories, video clips, etc.  I don’r want it and delete it straight from my box unread. 
your pal,
imr4198