Spike Camp

40 S&W ?

Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2012, 06:45:24 PM »
Skip the 9mm.  They are fine for target practice, but like Chris said they don't stop anything.  A lot of Chris's points I would agree with.  Find one that fits your hand first, not caliber.  I am a huge HK fan.  I have a 9mm usp, HK P30L in 40s&w, and a HK 45.  I also run a Hornady LNL Progressive press as I shoot a lot.  Hk 45 is my home defense gun.  8 rounds with serious knockdown power.  P30L is a long slide target version.  The 40 is definitely more snappy than a 9 and 45.  45 comes straight back, 40 snaps up at the 2 o'clock position.  P30 also has interchangeable back straps and side panels, both in 3 different sizes so you can mix and match.


fuonlynu

Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2012, 07:01:11 PM »
I had a 40 S&W  but I never pulled the trigger!.... I sold it... ;)   just wanted to type something... ;D

Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2012, 07:12:13 PM »
TroyThe 40 is a tweener in my  opinion  and several cop friends.It is hot right now but who knows in a year or two.High capacity and easy to shoot get a  9.Stopping power a 45 acp.357 Sig was hot for awhile and is a bad ass round if you look at its ballistics.Take your pick.12 ga semi by my bed for the heavy lifting.Pistols are easy and fast to load for with the carbide dies.I would suggest the Lee 3 die set with the powder thru bell sizer for convenience.You have to buy the powder thrower but well worth it to me.Truck pistol  is a 7 shot 357 Mag.Semis in other calibers are for fun.NAA 22 mag mini revlover for CCP because it is small enough I ways carry it.Sigs are Sweet and feel good in my hand.
Jim:The best thing to do with a 40. ;D





Roger
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Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2012, 07:46:09 PM »
The 40 S&W is a good defense round. Don't let others disparage the 9mm either. The 9 has stopped many fights.

 My working gun is a Glock 21. I'm just a 45 guy. The 357 SIG is very good but as mentioned, ammo is a little bit of an issue. I have a Glock 20 too. Good 10 mm ammo outperforms all the aforementioned but it's more limited like the 357.

Stopping a threat is like big game hunting; shot placement. No handgun is a perfect choice but a shot in the face from any of those mentioned works pretty well. The most important thing about a self defense handgun is to have it with you. It then must be totally reliable and you must know how to use it and when to use it..

You won't go wrong with the 40. It is a bit of a compromise round but it is very good. I don't like to give much personal info on web sites, but please trust I know what I'm talking about. I have 30 years experience in these matters.

Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2012, 07:52:18 PM »
The Sig is the best choice, either the .40 or the .357 Sig.  Both are awesome rounds.  If you really want something bad ass, go with the 10MM.  It is the horse!  The Sig P229 first and then the P226.  Both are great handguns.
JohnP
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Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2012, 08:09:40 PM »
My go to carry gun is a model 23 glock in a 40 cal, IMO the 40cal is a great choice, don't over look the M&P pistols.
You are never more alive than when you raise yourself to the level of the challenge set before you......

Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2012, 11:19:02 PM »
If you haven't picked your gun out yet, check this out:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power

The more research I do, the more it seems to me that "stopping power" in a hand gun is a pipe dream unless you carry something out of the ordinary like a .460 Rowland, .500 S&W/.50 AE or .454 Casuli. The only thing speed effects up til about 2200 fps seems to be penetration. There's something to be said for that, but there's a lot more to be said for wound channel because all the common self defense rounds have enough penetration to hit the important things. Bigger hole = faster bleed out, and barring a heart/head shot that's what you're relying on.

Then there's the study I just linked. Much as I hate to admit it (because it hurts like hell to say that 9mm is even close to my beloved .45...), this guy's gotten his numbers from real world shootings. Specifically military and police engagements over the course of a decade.It seems that for all intents and purposes the difference between the common self defense hand gun rounds: 9mm, .38, .40 and .45 are more or less negligible. That's of course provided you're not shooting at a target wearing some form of protective garment, and usually you won't be.

At this point, I'm starting to think that regardless of what caliber weapon you choose your handgun is just the weapon you use until you get to your rifle/shotgun. Skip over anything below .38/9mm, pick a weapon that feels like it belongs in your hand, practice until it feels like it's an extension of your body, and you'll be set.

zonie

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Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2012, 12:26:48 AM »
Troy,   Chris is spot on good post by the way.   I'm a big fan of the 10mm and 45acp.  You can always re-spring most guns in either caliber and download if you choose, but you can never get a 9mm or 40 to the same killing factor of a 10 or 45   regardless how much powder you try and stuff in a 9 or 40.  Something to keep that in mind,   If you want a bad ass caliber get a 9x25 Dillon barrel and get a colt or glock and keep a spare 10mm barrel for fun.  Think of a 9x25 Dillon which pre-dates the 357 Sig as a Sig on major steriods.   A 115 @ 1800 fps at over 800 ft lbs energy.  Even the 10mm with it's larger heavier bullets if you load hot you can push  just shy of 800 fp lbs.  You can buy high capacity  double stacks in all of them if you want.     

I'd  buy a good reputable gun that feels the best in your hand.    Glocks are ok,  S&W M&P are nice,  I have a couple 45's and for carry I like a std Springfield XD in 45acp & high cap mags.   I keep a high cap smith 9mm in the truck and it's fun to shoot,   my favorite is a Colt delta 10mm or a series 70 colt 45acp.   If you plan on hitting anything at longer ranges you might want to add a set of adjustable sights,  saves you on regulating ammo and drifting or getting an expensive rear sight tool and messing with sights.  Some of these  fixed rear sights on these guns are freakin in there and a sight tool is a must on some of them.

A lot of it depends on what you are planing on doing with the gun,  concealed carry,  in a strong side holster,  plinking & home defense,   possibly a nice little black bear self protection gun, and occasional deer & coyote,  etc.    All of these are super easy to load to keep costs down.   One thing I would look for if you are planing on pushing the envelope on loads is get a fully supported barrel,  these will handle the +P loads without bulging cases.  When you do start re-loading them get a Lee final size die and it's nice to have a case gauge, although if you pull the barrel and drop every reloaded round in it does the same thing. 

zonie

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Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2012, 01:11:13 AM »
I kind of screwed up on that one a little,   I meant to say you can buy a high cap double stack gun in all these calibers.    I don't always like a double stack I have smaller hands and prefer usually a single stack except for some of the polymer guns.    Don't over look a 38 super in a colt or colt clone a little more powerful than a 9mm.   

If you read the FBI reports on the Miami shootout in 86 that's the reason the FBI originally went to the 10mm then later to the 40.   They were shooting into vehicles and the guns they were using weren't getting the job done.   There was a Strasborg test done, and I've read the complete report where incapacitation was the prime modivation to take the fight out of the bad guy.  Some people say this was a hoax test.  I'm not so sure it was pretty well written and conclusive.  I think the main reason some people say it was a hoax was the bad press the FBI would have gotten if the public was fully aware of them using live goats in testing.  The 10mm was the winner by the way followed closely by a 357 mag and 45acp.   

If you think about it the military would have never went to the 9mm if Nato didn't shove it down our throats after we shoved the 308 & 5.56 down theirs..   Not with standing  women in the military now.   A lot of of spec ops are using 45's as are some PD's and swat teams.  The guy's are using them for a reason. 

Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2012, 06:39:42 AM »
Thanks guys, alot of good info, now I have more to go on when deciding. I have thought about a defense shotgun in the past. It would be great for home defense, which would hopefully never be used for that, other than that I cant ever really seeing my self doing anything with one. I do really like the idea of minimal to no external damage with a shotgun.
The 357sig looks like something I'd really like, but to expensive to shoot, and not sure that I want to get into reloading for a handgun. The 9 looks practical for having fun with, could be effective, but I wouldnt feel confident with it. The 40 S&W seems like a pretty good all around choice for defense and plinking. It may not be the baddest boy on the block but its better than nothing. Put it like this, Id like a handgun mostly for target shooting, enough to get a good feel for and get confident with so I have something if need be. Yet I dont know if I'll shoot enough that I want to reload for it, maybe I will, time will tell. I like to spend my time on my passion which is my rifles and hunting. I like to spend alot of time perfecting precision rifle ammo so dont want something taking away from that in time and money.
I dont know that I would get into carrying a handgun, once again time will tell, but its a good point and something to consider. I plan on getting a Sig Sauer P226, it feels so natural in my hand and looks great to. Im also keeping the wife in consideration with this. She doesnt know it but shes getting a Sig Mosquito ( pink ) for Christmas, ha ha... should make a good plinker for her.
Troy

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Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2012, 10:47:16 AM »
 Troy,  It's what feels best for you,   if the gun doesn't feel right in your hand that's not a good thing.   Sigs are wonderful pistols and the 226 is a proven model, pretty much can't go wrong.  You can always put adjustable sights on later if the ammo you will be using doesn't  shoot  close to point  of aim.    You can always buy other pistols when and if you get into them. 


Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2012, 11:06:57 AM »
Ron Ive felt some of the other pistols and theres been something on each I dont like. I like the looks of the Springfield, but dont like the rear safety thing, not comfortable to me. Shot one in a 9mm here about a month back, just didnt do it for me. I'll have to look into the adjustable sights, do Sigs come with adjustable sights as an option ?
Troy

Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2012, 12:00:24 PM »
I consider the 40 S&W the minium for personal defense and believe the 9 MM is overated and like zonie said the only reason the military uses it is because of NATO.
also chris is right on.
check out the FNP40,shot one at the range a few years ago then went and traded in a glock 23 for one and havn't regreted it,it is my carry gun in a inside the pants holster.for me the weight balance etc is excellent(near perfect). comes with 3 grip sizes and with the middle size for me it is a point and squeeze weapon.
I load 180 grn. hornandy XTP for it and for the range I load 180 grn.oregon trail hard cast lead.shoot 100 rds of the lead whenever I go to the range(at least bi-weekly)then always finish with at least 1 magazine of the hornandy's.
another note is 10 yrs or so ago when the military did extensive testing wanting to replace the beretta the FNP 40 and FNP 45 came out on top.don't know what happened but was told some bean counter decided to stick with the cheaper beretta and that NATO raised hell about 9mm.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 09:49:45 AM by telemaster »

gary d

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Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2012, 04:28:52 PM »
recently I was in the same boat deciding which cal to get my .226 in, a .40S&W or the 9mm.  Living in Canada self defense isn't an option  >:( ??? ::) so that wasn't really a point for consideration for me. In the end I went with the 9mm, mostly because I already load for the 9 and was needing another gun fast.  Also because being the NATO round, that is what I get issued when work calls for it.  But possibly the biggest advantage for the 9mm in the Sig 226 is that the German made ones are all 9mm.  The German produced guns purportedly had unsurpassed  independent quality control where it has been under recent scrutiny as being lacking in the current US production pieces. 

Comparing the two rounds, I have seen a number ballistics tests and guess what just like hunting, the choice in ammunition is more important than choice in caliber.  9mm is less expensive to shoot and to load and you can put in lots of practice for less $$, and have a mag of premium defense ammo on hand that you keep for that purpose. 
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Re: 40 S&W ?
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2012, 04:37:08 PM »
Practice with your chosen self defense round,too! I see my first defense as my German Shepherd! That makes me rethink what gun I`d use for fear of hitting the dog! Louisville slugger comes to mind!