Spike Camp

Long Range Caliber?

danierh

Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2011, 06:25:40 PM »
.30-378 lol....its unbelievable, my deer last year lazered at 460yds. year before 440yds..lots of calibers will take deer that far,but few can with such a small amount of holdover.its so much more easy.oh yeah ..i use 150 and 165gr balistic tip .i cant decide which i like better...prob.150gr.

danierh

Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2011, 06:30:14 PM »
i forgot to mention the 150gr balistic tip is loaded in front of 119gr.of retumbo for 3690fps.

Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2011, 06:56:12 PM »
Russ:You have a smoking 150 at almost 3700fps.I am amazed the bt holds up.I thought I was using lots of powder in the 300 Wby at 85 grains.I am running on the cheap it seems  ;D.
Roger
Faster horses,younger women,older whiskey,and more money.

Marishka

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Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2011, 05:15:36 AM »
FYI

Link to published data on 257 STW

http://www.fergusonrifles.com/hot_tamale/Hot_Tamale_Ballistic_Data.pdf

Link to Chuck Hawks article on Ultra Long Range Rifles

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ultra-long-range.htm
NRA Endowment
MkV 22-250
MkV 270 + 2 270 wby stainls
MkV 308
MkV 270-300 Wby
MkV Alas 375 H&H
MkV 257 Wby fluted stainls barrel
MkV 7mm Wby stainls UL
MkV 300 Wby stainls x 2
MkV 30-378 Wby
MkV 340 Wby
MkV 375 Wby x 2
MkV 378 Wby
MkV 416 Wby
1899 Ithaca Hammerless
Guarini OU
Orion OU
M1 Carbine wa

danierh

Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2011, 09:45:41 AM »
wow , iwent to that sight and looked at those velocities wow!, but it didnt have bullet wt. or test barrel length ?does any one know e. f. hutten ?

Marishka

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Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2011, 11:02:00 AM »
NRA Endowment
MkV 22-250
MkV 270 + 2 270 wby stainls
MkV 308
MkV 270-300 Wby
MkV Alas 375 H&H
MkV 257 Wby fluted stainls barrel
MkV 7mm Wby stainls UL
MkV 300 Wby stainls x 2
MkV 30-378 Wby
MkV 340 Wby
MkV 375 Wby x 2
MkV 378 Wby
MkV 416 Wby
1899 Ithaca Hammerless
Guarini OU
Orion OU
M1 Carbine wa

Marishka

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Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2011, 11:08:48 AM »
FYI

Link to Conley Precision ballistics chart for 30-378

 http://www.cpcartridge.com/30378wby-b.htm

Link to Conley Precision ballistics chart for 300 Weatherby

http://www.cpcartridge.com/300wby-b.htm
NRA Endowment
MkV 22-250
MkV 270 + 2 270 wby stainls
MkV 308
MkV 270-300 Wby
MkV Alas 375 H&H
MkV 257 Wby fluted stainls barrel
MkV 7mm Wby stainls UL
MkV 300 Wby stainls x 2
MkV 30-378 Wby
MkV 340 Wby
MkV 375 Wby x 2
MkV 378 Wby
MkV 416 Wby
1899 Ithaca Hammerless
Guarini OU
Orion OU
M1 Carbine wa

Marishka

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Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2011, 01:55:19 PM »
FYI

Link to Conley Precision ballistics chart for .338 Win

http://www.cpcartridge.com/338winmag-B.htm
NRA Endowment
MkV 22-250
MkV 270 + 2 270 wby stainls
MkV 308
MkV 270-300 Wby
MkV Alas 375 H&H
MkV 257 Wby fluted stainls barrel
MkV 7mm Wby stainls UL
MkV 300 Wby stainls x 2
MkV 30-378 Wby
MkV 340 Wby
MkV 375 Wby x 2
MkV 378 Wby
MkV 416 Wby
1899 Ithaca Hammerless
Guarini OU
Orion OU
M1 Carbine wa

Marishka

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Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2011, 02:29:52 PM »
If choosing between the .300 Weatherby and the .338 Winchester, compare the performance on the Conley precision charts. As well as the sectional density calculation. The sectioal density formula can be found at this link: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91587

Both with 180 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips

Muzzle
.300 Weatherby    mv=3200fps     me=4092     
.338 Winchester   mv=3000fps     me=3596

100yds
.300 Weatherby     mv=3000      me=2997
.338 Winchester    mv=2739      me=2596


200yds
.300 Weatherby     mv=2807      me=3148
.338 Winchester    mv=2491      me=2479


300yds
.300 Weatherby     mv=2621      me=2747    drop= -5.60"
.338 Winchester    mv=2259      me=2039    drop= -7.19"

Sectional Density

180gr/7000 = 0.257

.300 Weatherby .308 x .308 = .0948
.338 Winchester .338 x .338 = .1142

.300 Weatherby   .257/.0948 = 2.710
.338 Winchester   .257/.1142 = 2.250

Also take a look at the same calibers with 250 grain bullets.
NRA Endowment
MkV 22-250
MkV 270 + 2 270 wby stainls
MkV 308
MkV 270-300 Wby
MkV Alas 375 H&H
MkV 257 Wby fluted stainls barrel
MkV 7mm Wby stainls UL
MkV 300 Wby stainls x 2
MkV 30-378 Wby
MkV 340 Wby
MkV 375 Wby x 2
MkV 378 Wby
MkV 416 Wby
1899 Ithaca Hammerless
Guarini OU
Orion OU
M1 Carbine wa

Marishka

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Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2011, 09:18:52 AM »
FYI, use Beartooth Bullets sectional density calculator to compare .300 w/ .338: http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/density.htm

Comparison of the sectional density of the .300 Weatherby tMagnum to the .338 Winchester Magnum using a 250 grain bullet.

.300 Weatherby = .376
.338 Winchester = .313
NRA Endowment
MkV 22-250
MkV 270 + 2 270 wby stainls
MkV 308
MkV 270-300 Wby
MkV Alas 375 H&H
MkV 257 Wby fluted stainls barrel
MkV 7mm Wby stainls UL
MkV 300 Wby stainls x 2
MkV 30-378 Wby
MkV 340 Wby
MkV 375 Wby x 2
MkV 378 Wby
MkV 416 Wby
1899 Ithaca Hammerless
Guarini OU
Orion OU
M1 Carbine wa

zonie

Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2011, 11:08:54 AM »
Stated ballistics from any source are guides only, and if you are truely shooting really  longranges in the 600 +  you are probably not going to use either of these bullets (non match especially 180 gr 338 when there are better choices) .  Your reference to Conley in the 338 is no where near the top velicities from other manuals.  The 300 Wby is right in there at the top with most load data.  Each rifle is going to tell you what it likes and dislikes . 

His original question was for fun just to see how far he can hit with.  It has nothing to do with SD,  which means absolutely  nothing except for a math reference comparison,  and nothing to do with BC, bullet construction or how a bullet flys.

Even though we sometimes forget most old calibers back in the day thought of as long range calibers (moderate ranges by todays standards), 32-40's, 38-55's,  45-70's, etc,  are still used for moderate to much longer  range target shooting.  Just aim high.

To his question any of the better calibers using match grade bullets in 6mm, 6.5's, 7mm's , 30's, 338's, with high BC's, handloaded, and chronographed will work, even the right twist and heavy bullets in a 223  can be extremely long range accurate.  Just depends how far you want to get into it. 

Unless you find someone to load and test for you, or just happen to find a really accurate factory load with high BC (and there are some out there).   You will have to handload, test, and chronograph otherwise you are peeing  upwind in gail force winds, and you know where that goes.


Oregon Jim

Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2011, 11:22:34 AM »
The problem in these discussions is that these differences are only relevent in the theoretical world. In the real world there is almost no significant difference or advantage to the "working ability" of these calibers when it comes to hitting long range targets.

The real world difference is that you have to adjust a few more clicks on your scope for some calibers than others. You aim the same. You squeeze the trigger the same, and if you did your part your bullet will go where you aimed it. Everything else is just classroom fodder.

Marishka

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Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2011, 12:38:41 PM »
Custom loaded rounds, if loaded by a competent loader, are superior to factory loads. But, that does not change the direct comparison of multiple calibers for the purpose of a baseline. Once you have a baseline you have a valid basis to go to the next step if looking to choose what to spend you money on. First you need the information required for a baseline.

As for sectional density, is it part of that essential base knowledge which provides a view into the performance of the cartridges that you are considering. Sectional density is important to hunters when considering killing what is hunted. But, I do not see it playing a very important role with targets. However, since most who shhot also hunt, it does not hurt toprovide that information for the purpose of contributing to the requestor having what he/she needs/wants as knowledge. 

When giving information to another, giving more information is better than giving less information. Once the data is in hand, the requester can decide what to do with it. So, it does not make sense to assume what information is needed. It is always better to give whatever information you can so the requester can choose rather than having an outsider attempt to determine what the requester needs and does not need. So, let the requester decide what is wanted or needed. Anyway, what is wrong with giving as much information as you are capable of giving?

I agree fully with what can be achieved with match grade bullets. But, even with today's technology, making two (2) bullets that are exactly identical is impossible.

How a projectile flies through the air, the friction caused thereby, the heat resulting from that friction, any expansion due to that heat, the impact of the wind, the earth's movement, the impact of gravity as well as the launching platform are all factors affecting accuracy. But, there will not be a time when, from shot to shot, the conditions for two or more shots will be identical.

In addition , no matter how consistent all of that is, there is the inconsistency of the pull on the trigger as well as how that pull is exerted on the trigger.

In the end, it is all approximated because, with shooting a rifle, that which is inconsistent makes each shot different. No two bullets will fly exactly the same. 
So, I give the information given just to give to the requester as much information as I can give. Let the requester then take all of the information from all of the sources and decide. If the requester is loading his own ammo, he is like a scientest and will test his various loads and bullets until he/she comes up with what is most desirable to him/her. Again, even to him having more information is better than less information. One can never know, whether or not, if certain information is desired.

I must say that I am amazed with the performance of newest two (2) Weatherbys, my .30-378 and my custom .257 STW. My .300 Weatherby is also a great performer (1x10 twist). But, that is me shooting my guns which, I am certain, is different than any other person shooting his/her guns. 
NRA Endowment
MkV 22-250
MkV 270 + 2 270 wby stainls
MkV 308
MkV 270-300 Wby
MkV Alas 375 H&H
MkV 257 Wby fluted stainls barrel
MkV 7mm Wby stainls UL
MkV 300 Wby stainls x 2
MkV 30-378 Wby
MkV 340 Wby
MkV 375 Wby x 2
MkV 378 Wby
MkV 416 Wby
1899 Ithaca Hammerless
Guarini OU
Orion OU
M1 Carbine wa

Marishka

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Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2011, 12:39:39 PM »
I am in complete agreement with Oregon Jim.
NRA Endowment
MkV 22-250
MkV 270 + 2 270 wby stainls
MkV 308
MkV 270-300 Wby
MkV Alas 375 H&H
MkV 257 Wby fluted stainls barrel
MkV 7mm Wby stainls UL
MkV 300 Wby stainls x 2
MkV 30-378 Wby
MkV 340 Wby
MkV 375 Wby x 2
MkV 378 Wby
MkV 416 Wby
1899 Ithaca Hammerless
Guarini OU
Orion OU
M1 Carbine wa

ballistic

Re: Long Range Caliber?
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2011, 02:04:11 PM »
Im in agreement with Jim, Zonie, and Marishka. In sense most of us on here are fascinated by this stuff, and what most of us are striving for to some degree. Long range shooting takes knowledge, skill, and good equipment to execute it accuratally.