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.223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?

.223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« on: December 07, 2022, 07:14:42 PM »
I am looking for a load for fox and Bobcat. That won't blow them apart. Any thoughts on 60 gr. Nosler Partition  or 52 gr. Sierra Match kings .
Traveling at slow velocities ?
Or would a 40 gr. Ballistic tip Traveling fast be better. Any thoughts ?
Thank you.
Mark

Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2022, 08:35:19 PM »
I would stay away from the 40 gr ballistic tip, unless you want to use a reduced load @ around 2500fps. I tried the 40 gr ball tip with 5744 @ about 2500 fps for shooting beavers, and it worked pretty good, not much pelt damage. But one of my favorite loads for the 223 is either 40 gr v max or ball tip, IMR or H 4198 @ 3600 fps, but it does a fair amount of damage to a fox. 

If you have 52 gr match kings, I would use them starting with 18 grs of either IMR or H 4189 and work up until you find your frist accuracy node. Keep it under 3000 fps, and it should work good.

Rob

Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2022, 10:31:52 AM »
I guess it really depends on what gun you are shooting semi-auto or non semi-auto,  max ranges,  whether it's in a trap i.e handgun ranges,  or calling.  You hit bone even 22 LR's can cause damage.  If legal in your area and you are calling and not using a semi auto might want to look at and test in a block of clay or other test media if you can to find a good load that doesn't really tear things up.  Might look at  FMJ 223 bullets and load down to under 2000 fps  maybe under 150 yds or so.   Other school of thought is super velocities with a frangible bullet that completely comes apart   Might look at sintered bullets,  One of the better set ups and several hunting buddies use over under Savage shotgun / rifle barrels and select your barrel depending upon range,  put a scope on it you can sight down the barrel for up close shots using the shot gun barrel  use bird shot and load lite,  use an open choke.  Baikal made some over under shotgun / rifle guns.  on the rifle barrel side I guess choose your poison.  Years ago when it was Legal here in certain seasons   turkey gun was a 30-06 using very hard  cast lead bullets and load down carefully with the correct powder to 1800 fps of less with a 180 grain round or flat nose bullet which does not expand and pokes holes right thru unless you hit bone and then you get secondary wound channels from bone splinters.  Might even use  22 LR  or magnum with heavy lead bullets if it's Legal in your area for fox and bobcats.  I suggest making up some  clay, gelatin or wet news paper  go shoot some loads and then make a decision.  Pelt prices are down from a few years ago,  I don't know what prices currently are.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2022, 10:38:44 AM by zoniezonie »

Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2022, 07:33:36 PM »
What about Barnes 36 gr Grenades? They are supposed to go in and not come out.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2022, 08:01:36 PM by Big Muddy rancher »
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Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2022, 08:24:11 PM »
another option would be either the new hornady cx or one of the barnes ttsx. Find a good starting load to keep them under 3000 fps, and they would likely act just like a fmj. Even with a good starting load of around 2900-3000 fps, with any bullet in the 50-55gr range, hits out to 250 or so yards would be still quite easy.

Rob
« Last Edit: December 08, 2022, 08:30:57 PM by catskinner »

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Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2022, 05:23:27 AM »
I used a 225 win with fmj for turkeys. Aim for the hips, worked great. Fox and Bobcat in range a shotgun worked best for me
Mike

Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2022, 11:01:54 AM »
Thank you all good advice.
I will have a shotgun in my hands while the electronic caller is playing. But If A bobcat is out of range I was looking for a back up plan. I like the Barnes option. As I'm far more likely to call in a coyote than anything else. But am going to use Bluejay and woodpecker  distress calls mostly
To up my chances for A bobcat.
Mark

Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2022, 12:06:18 PM »
This is what a Barnes 80 gr TTSX did to this coyote at a range of about 125 yds. This is out of my Savage 99, .250AI with a MV of 3300 fps.

Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2022, 06:12:25 PM »
Dino that is one nasty looking coyote.
That thing tore him up.
After watching video's on Barnes varmint grenade.
I don't trust it for fox or bobcat.  I'm sure it works on coyotes.  But I seen a guy shoot a 5 L jug of water and it ripped it apart. I'm afraid to take the chance on this hunt with it.  I'm going to try 2 loads with the 52 gr. Match Kings. 2500 fps and 3000 fps and see what happens to a gallon of water.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 07:48:42 PM by grizzly340 »
Mark

Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2022, 08:27:48 AM »
This is what a Barnes 80 gr TTSX did to this coyote at a range of about 125 yds. This is out of my Savage 99, .250AI with a MV of 3300 fps.

that is exactly why, you want to keep the bullet speed under 3000 fps, but that damage is more to do with the shot angle.


Dino that is one nasty looking coyote.
That thing tore him up.
After watching video's on Barnes varmint grenade.
I don't trust it for fox or bobcat.  I'm sure it works on coyotes.  But I seen a guy shoot a 5 L jug of water and it ripped it apart. I'm afraid to take the chance on this hunt with it.  I'm going to try 2 loads with the 52 gr. Match Kings. 2500 fps and 3000 fps and see what happens to a gallon of water.


I never used the barnes varmit grenade, but from the looks of them, I wouldn't trust them either. They look close to the old calhoon bullets, they would turn gophers into red mist, skunks and foxes into tore up pieces, but work well on coyotes.

keep us posted on what happens with the matchkings betwwen 2500 and 3000, they might be a good bullet for me for shooting beavers and not doing too much damage either.

Rob

Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2022, 12:57:27 PM »
I was antelope hunting at the time this guy came along. He was following a small group of antelope probably looking to pick off a fawn. When he saw me, he took off running straight away from me. It was what the locals here refer to as a Texas Heart shot.

Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2022, 02:02:44 PM »
I can tell you a 110AB at 3450 from a 257 Roy launched into a Bobcat at 50 yards doesn't work too well.  ;D


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Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2022, 03:38:48 PM »
Shooting a bobcat will get me a free hog hunting trip.  I have seen them,but not in range. A coyote is the same deal.What is the value of these pelts?

Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2022, 06:21:08 PM »
Bobcat pelts very by location.  Western pelts bring the most from $100 on up  eastern in the $60 range. Where you are I would guess less just due to fur length of warmer weather cats.
I just want 1 for A rug. My brother shot one with a 30 -06  and his rug looks perfect. I asked him and it did make A big exit hole. But the taxidermist.  Charged him extra and fixed it. You can't even tell .
I have been looking how to reduce the .223 load.
Only one I see published is 18.5 grs. Of RL 7 at 2605 fps.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2022, 07:07:03 PM by grizzly340 »
Mark

Re: .223 loads for fox and Bobcat ?
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2022, 09:41:21 PM »
Bobcat pelts very by location.  Western pelts bring the most from $100 on up  eastern in the $60 range. Where you are I would guess less just due to fur length of warmer weather cats.
I just want 1 for A rug. My brother shot one with a 30 -06  and his rug looks perfect. I asked him and it did make A big exit hole. But the taxidermist.  Charged him extra and fixed it. You can't even tell .
I have been looking how to reduce the .223 load.
Only one I see published is 18.5 grs. Of RL 7 at 2605 fps.


there use to be reduced load data for AA5744 on Accurate's webpage, but since hodgdon took it over it's not there any more.  If I have time over the next few days, I look and see if I can find the published data for reduced 223 loads I got from some older reloading manuals. I know you can use 4198 down to 14-15 grs safely, and get around 2200-2300 fps. A safe bet is also h4895, it's common knowledge that hodgdon states you can take any cartridge that hodgdon has H4895 publish for and can reduce it to 60%of max load safely. So hodgdon data says max load is 27 gr for a 53 gr bullet , so 60% of that is 16.2 gr, means you can start there.  You can also call Hodgdon. Here is a link to the speer data, show a reduce load using 5744.

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/223_Remington_52.pdf

Rob