12 gage pump

[Derrill Fox]

What would you guys have for shotgun ammo for self defense. I live in a very bad place and things are getting worse. I was recently threatened to have my dog killed as well as my life. I am looking at a Mossberg 88 with a 18.5" barrel. I like the idea of a pump action because of that distinct sound of racking a round makes. I appreciate any and all advice. Thanks  guys 

[JWDynamics]

What would you guys have for shotgun ammo for self defense. I live in a very bad place and things are getting worse. I was recently threatened to have my dog killed as well as my life. I am looking at a Mossberg 88 with a 18.5" barrel. I like the idea of a pump action because of that distinct sound of racking a round makes. I appreciate any and all advice. Thanks  guys 

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Hope your situation improves!

A few years ago, a co-worker sent me a youtube video of a alleged former spec-ops soldier discussing and testing home defense weapons with a focus on concern for close neighbors and other folks living in your home. They tested several firearms from inside wall, through another exterior wall and finally with a gelatin human form several feet off the exterior wall to test penetration.

They tested a 12 gauge shotgun with 00 buckshot, which we were always told was the best for close range self defense. The buckshot ended up going through the walls and into the gelatin forms so that option would not be ideal if you have neighbors around, especially zero lot line neighborhoods. You also want to consider the path the bullets/shot may travel if anyone else lives in your house!

In the end, the best test results came from a 9mm with hollowpoints. The operator recommended either a 9mm pistol with stabilizing brace or SBR because you can carry more ammo easily and most shooters are more accurate with this type of setup versus a traditional pistol.
 

[Derrill Fox]

Thanks jw I appreciate your advice. The main reason I was thinking of a shotgun was that distinct sound a pump shotgun makes. Most everyone will run when hearing that sound.

[Grouchy]

The Mossberg is a good choice. The problem I run into is manuverability in my narrow hall way wth any long gun. #2 or #4 shot work and penetrate a lot less My walls are concrete block but the windows are the escape point for any weapon's load. 

[pr-diesel-doc]

I would suggest forgetting about the sound racking the gun makes n just keep it loaded on standby. If your set on a 12 ga pump, hard to beat an older Remington 870.

[eford]

20 gauge pump with 7 1/2 shot.
Several years ago a kid showed the results of his experiment with 2, 4, 6 and 7 1/2 shot into identical pieces of plywood from the same distance. The hole made my the 7 1/2 shot was larger. Go figure.

[TexWeatherby]

I think the advice given so far is helpful and correct. The devastating power of 12 gauge 00 buck loads is well documented, but the penetration issue is a real concern, not only for neighbors, but for family members in other rooms. Grouch brought up a good point about using 2 or 4 shot to reduce going through multiple walls. Even no. 6 shot is devastating at close up defense ranges out to 3 or 4 yards (center mass or face hits). Contrary to popular (incorrect) belief, you have to shoot accurately with a shotgun - at indoor defense ranges (2-7 yds), you're looking at a pattern between a couple inches to maybe six inches in diameter. I usually keep a 9mm or .38 loaded with hollowpoints within reach and for a defense/truck shotgun, a Mossberg Shockwave (14" barrel and no shoulder stock - easy to maneuver even in hallways) with a laser sight mounted. BTW, the "racking to scare them" thing is overrated and for the movies - it might scare them off (or not), but you just gave away your presence and position, rarely a tactical advantage.

[Derrill Fox]

You guys are right about penetration and close quarters. I live in a studio apartment and the walls are cinder blocks but that won't stop a close wall. And there is my dog who I dearly love. I have been looking at 9mms and I can get one even cheaper than a shotgun plus the ammo is cheaper. Thanks for the advice everyone. Looks like I will be getting a 9mm .

[grizzly340]

3 inch turkey loads with 4 shot at close range.
Longer ranges any of the buck shot loads will do the job.alot more pellets with # 4 buck.

[JWDynamics]

After watching that aforementioned youtube video I cited earlier, I ended up putting this together. It's nothing crazy... just a fairly inexpensive PSA 9mm AR-9. Takes Glock magazines so I picked up a couple of 30 round stick mags, put a reflexive site on it and one of those 45 degree "legal" fore-end grips since it's technically a pistol.

I also added a Steamlight TLR mounted flashlight to the M-Lok on the left side. With a full battery charge, that alone will blind anyone that is being pointed at... another advantage.

That setup is my "go-to" primary home defense setup.

[zoniezonie]

Derrill :   if it were me I would  get a used Winchester 1200 defender speed pump  they are real smooth and reliable.  the Mossbergs and I have them are a little  bite-e when quick loading,  newer  Remington 870's aren't too bad,  the older 870 can get what they call the 870 jam where if you short stroke while loading the shell in the tube would not catch and  shell would slip under the loading lever and lock up the whole gun making it useless,  the newer 870's corrected this issue.  the other 2 guns that are just killer are the older pump Ithaca 37 and the old pump Winchester model 12's both of these older models can be slam fired when you rack the slide. hold the trigger down and keep pumping very fast. if you are in an apartment 7 1/2's are going to do a lot of damage to a person at close range, drywall is dry wall a good pellet gun can penetrate the walls.  I keep 2 shotguns laying around where I can get to them a single shot chubby 18.5 " bbl and a 20" choked Mossberg 500 both of these shotguns  I keep  7 1/2  bird shot,  followed by # 4 buck shot # 4 buckshot will tear  4x4 post in half if you are close enough,   followed by a slug ,  2 3/4 or 3 " shells it really doesn't matter  12 ga is going to do a lot of damage.   If I were really pissed get a semi auto  combat Benelli or Remington 1100/1187 extend the tube to around 10 to 11 rounds and keep a few speed loaders handy.  that's a joke of course. ,  you know my Turkey gun as a little youth model Mossberg  3 " Bantam 20 ga with a little 20"  bbl with choke tubes, very light weight gun and it will knock the dog snot out of a Turkey at 30 yds.   the question is always what to use a hand gun or rifle or shotgun.   I can't answer that question to be honest I keep all 3 handy around the house and we have 3 dogs that bark at everything.

[Derrill Fox]

Derrill :   if it were me I would  get a used Winchester 1200 defender speed pump  they are real smooth and reliable.  the Mossbergs and I have them are a bite-e when quick loading,  newer  Remington 870's aren't too bad,  the older 870 can get what they call the 870 jam where if you short stroke while loading the shell in the tube would not catch and  shell would slip under the loading lever and lock up the whole gun making it useless,  the newer 870's corrected this issue.  the other 2 guns that are just killer are the older pump Ithaca 37 and the old pump Winchester model 12's both of these older models can be slam fired when you rack the slide. hold the trigger down and keep pumping very fast. if you are in an apartment 7 1/2's are going to do a lot of damage to a person at close range, drywall is dry wall a good pellet gun can penetrate the walls.  I keep 2 shotguns laying around where I can get to them a single shot chubby 18 " bbl and a Mossberg 500 both of these shotguns  I keep  7 1/2  bird shot,  followed by # 4 buck shot # 4 buckshot will tear  4x4 post in half if you are close enough,   followed by a slug ,  2 3/4 or 3 " shells it really doesn't matter  12 ga is going to do a lot of damage.   If I were really pissed get a semi auto  combat Benelli or Remington 1100/1187 extend the tube to around 10 to 11 rounds and keep a few speed loaders handy.  that's a joke of course.

thanks for the information Ron. What is your opinion on a Smith & Wesson sd 40. I hope all is well with you and Norma.

[zoniezonie]

Derrill,   I really don't know anything about the Smith SD 40,  I'd get some you tubes on them and check out their reviews.  Norma broke her knee & shin bone very badly almost a year ago 18 pins, plates, bone graft, and 2 surgeries and it's still not right,  looking possible for another surgery later we just don't know,  she retired and stopped hunting she will still go but not hunt.  Brandon is doing fine still hunting and shed hunting,  I screwed up on a couple cow elk 2 years ago  down the road near the wildlife habitat area when the muzzleloader didn't go bang or they were one behind the other and couldn't shoot.  Brandon has taken a couple 6x6 nice bulls  the last few years he passed on a monster 6 by maybe 200 yds skylighted on a ridge broadside,   and didn't want to take a chance of where the bullet would go,  he shot one bull at 832 yds with his 300 wby MKV  a bunch of us watching not like a lot of pressure,  you could see the vapor trail looking like a soft ball till it hit. cold late Nov morning about 8000 ft elev,  had a hard time ranging that bull out in that new growth Aspens,  I couldn't range it in my older Leica,   another friend was having trouble with his pulled the battery out of mine and gave it to him still couldn't get a range I tried  Brandons Vortex 1800 RF couldn't pick up a range another friend used his new Leupold and finally got the range and he shot,  after that I went out and bought a Vortex Fury AB 5000  I like it so far  a lot of features I probably never use.  hard to get drawn anymore especially for Bull.  Brandon and I were up on an Antelope hunt  1 1/2 hr to the north west of us I guess about 4 yrs ago we were watching a 400 Bull for a couple days no elk tags of course he had probably 50 to 60 cows with him and a couple lesser Bulls in the rear didn't see any Antelope I wanted to shoot so I went home empty,  Brandons was spotting using that wide angle Kowa 82mm you could see the ripples in his skin it's so clear.   you still have my phone # ?    I haven't tried to get tags on the RES after Covid  things are different I think.

[Grouchy]

If you are going with a handgun,. I highly reccomend a Glock. Ugly as hell, but never jam or fail to fire!

[zoniezonie]

Derrill just reading what the guys have said a stocked pistol with a brace might  not a bad idea as a special purpose home defense weapon,  a bad guy that knows what he is doing with a knife could be on you within a couple seconds they say  that's not a lot of time to react.  I really don't like the idea of flash lights in a dark room or hallway every body and their brother knows where you are. I think I'd rather get the house lights on and sit tight  until 911 gets there , we don't have kids in the house anymore  unless we have guests,   flash lights only is kind of like a 2 edged sword it's good when you need it but with downsides. I guess it's better to have it and not need it than not having it at all.  if it were in the house the dogs are going to go after them if it went outside and the dogs weren't with us a pistol might not be the best choice if the ranges start expanding.  so many things to think about  it would be harder to wrestle a 2 handed gripped pistol or long gun away from you.