Roger, the 25-284 is my "worthless loose barrel pin inaccurate T/C Encore." That's the one that was a 250 Savage Ackley Improved, I got tired of it and rechamberd for the 25-284. The Ack version got just shy of 3200fps with 100grainers and the 25-284 get's around 3355fps tho I don't push it, with the same and it still shoot's horrible .25 moa three shot groups. Do you remember those targets I posted with the Asprin covering the holes??? well I can still do that! yippeeeeee!!!!!